JR Newsletter: 1 January 2012 (69)

Richard Meaney wrote:  BIG NEWS!

I received a telephone call from Rich Uhrich a couple of days after Christmas.  He told me he had big news for bust coin collectors and wanted the news first published in the JR Newsletter.  Rich has a client (who wishes to remain anonymous) who recently came across an 1827-dated bust dime which he could not attribute using "Early US Dimes."  The client sent Rich the coin for attribution.  Upon receipt, Rich confirmed that the coin looked like an 1827 JR-14, which is the most recently-discovered bust dime marriage.  Rich sent pictures of the coin to Brad Karoleff, who confirmed Rich's attribution.  So now there are two known 1827 JR-14 dimes!  Rich provided me with images of the newly-discovered 1827 JR-14 dime and those images are below (click image to enlarge).  Rich Uhrich will have the coin on display at his table #310-312 at the FUN show.  The owner of the coin is undecided on selling it at this time.

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From the official FUN Show schedule:

The John Reich Collectors Society will have a "regional meeting" at the FUN Show.  The meeting will be held on Friday, January 6, 2012 from 2:00-3:30 PM in Room S330E.  Dr. Glenn Peterson has graciously volunteered to host the meeting.  All JRCS members, prospective members, and other interested persons are welcome to attend!

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Brad Karoleff wrote:

We have an opportunity to have another "regional meeting" of the JRCS at the Whitman Baltimore Show in March.  The schedule has not yet been determined, so if JRCS members have a preference as to date and time, please write in to the JR Newsletter or contact Brad Karoleff to let your preference be known.  Currently, clubs with scheduled meeting times include Liberty Seated Collectors at 9:00 AM Friday, Barber Coin Society at 3:00 PM on Friday, and the Early American Coppers Society at 1:00 PM on Saturday.  I suggest we have a cut-off time of having a meeting no later than noon on Saturday to allow people to make reasonable plans to depart the show.

So, if you want to have a meeting and have a preference for date/time or would like to present an educational program at the meeting, contact Brad Karoleff or reply to the JR Newsletter. 

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 Jeff Reichenberger wrote:

Another outstanding JR Journal came to my mailbox this past week, just in time for the holidays. Hats off to the authors and editor. Great articles throughout the issue!

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Robert Willems wrote:

I am sending a quick message to ask people who submit photos to the JR Newsletter to try to avoid submitting photos that have a black background.  I suggest using a white background so that those of us who like to print such photos won't consume a lot of black ink when the pictures are printed.  Thank you!

Robert Willems

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Mike Sherrill wrote:

Hi, this is another response to the question about 1821 JR1 and JR2 dimes with die crack at S1-S2.

I seem to recall at least one example of 1821 JR1 without any die crack between S1 and S2. Unfortunately I did not make any notes and so I understand this is not very helpful. It seems possible a hairline crack existed in the die before commission, but because the crack occurs where the die bulge later develops, my feeling is the crack occurred soon after commission at an area of greatest stress.

I haven’t seen any examples of JR1 or JR2 that would place JR2 first in the emission order. However, examples of JR1 exist that look like they are struck after JR2. Below is a scan of an interesting late example in my collection. 

The area of weakness on the reverse at D STA corresponds to the area between the date and S1 and is not directly opposite that mess on the obverse.

Perhaps a remarriage of 1821 JR1 occurred. Or maybe some/most of the die crack and die bulge were removed by lapping prior to striking of JR2. A similar situation occurred with 1820 JR1. There is a second die bulge on some 1820 JR1s at S3-S5 that I don’t see on JR4 and was apparently lapped away.

Mike

JR Newsletter: 21 December 2011 (68)

This week's edition of the JR Newsletter is early in recognition of the upcoming holiday weekend.  Some interesting stuff is here for you to chew on over the course of the next week and a half!


Rich Uhrich wrote:

In response to Steve Kawalec:  I have copies of "Federal Half Dimes 1792-1837" in stock.  My website is http://www.richuhrichcoins.com/category.php?cat=18

Rich
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Brad Karoleff wrote:

 The latest issue of The John Reich Journal ( 21/3) was mailed on Saturday. Members should begin receiving their issues in a few days. Included inside the journal are two inserts.  The first is an addenda page to be inserted in your last issue updating the article by Bradley Higgins. I inadvertently only printed part of his delivery warrant chart. This addenda will complete the article. The other insert is the dues notice/Reiver award voting ballot. Please send a check to Steve and remember to vote for your favorite articles at the same time.

There are a couple of important things about the dues notice. Life members, of course, do not have to send a renewal check. Life members' mailing labels have LM on the upper right side. Life members should return the ballot to Steve. Members who are already paid for the next issue will have a black sharpie line through the dues renewal portion. Please vote for your favorite articles. All other members should not only vote, but send a check to Steve (PAYABLE TO JRCS) for $25 to continue their membership.

I also read that Steve Kawalec was looking for a copy of the half dime book. I have a few remaining for $150 plus postage. I can be reached at jrcs19 (at) yahoo.com if anyone would like to order a copy.

I also did not see any suggestions for die marriages to study at the EAC/JRCS convention in Buffalo. Please consider attending and let us know which coins you would like to see there.

Brad

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 Van Walworth wrote:

 Responding to the question about 1821 JR-1 & JR-2 dimes with a die crack between S1 & S2...

I have two specimens of JR-1, both coins in G - VG condition.  Both coins probably had the S1-S2 die crack but it progressed to the point it became a die bulge and virtually obliterates S2 and most of the field between S1 & S2.  

I also have three specimens of JR-2 that seem to indicate and represent three different die states.  I consider one JR-2 in VF condition to be a potential early die state because it has a very faint die break evident extending less than half way from the outside point of S1 toward the outside point of S2.  I consider a second JR-2 to be a potential mid-term die state because the die break extends between the outside points of S1 & S2, but the field has begun to bulge away, even though S1 & S2 are still in good detail.  I consider a third JR-2 specimen to be a potential late die state because the die break between S1 & S2 has become a bulge that obliterates the field and most of S1 & S2.

It is interesting to me that my JR-2 specimen I consider to be a potential late die state is in virtually identical condition to both of my JR-1 coins.  The die crack and subsequent bulge is identical looking in most every respect.  This is curious to me because I assume there was some die repair or refurbishment of some kind after the completion of minting JR-1 and before the minting of JR-2... otherwise some JR-2 strikes took place before and/or during the JR-1 minting efforts.

Van Walworth JRCS#1300

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Courtesy of the "E-Sylum" you can click on the following link to read about early United States Half Dimes that circulated in Cuba after the Spanish-American War:  http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v14n52a21.html

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From the editor:  The next issue of the JR Newsletter should be out on schedule (Sunday, January 1, 2012)

JR Newsletter: 18 December 2011 (67)

Winston Zack wrote:

Has anyone seen an 1821 JR-1, or even JR-2 Dime without the obverse die cracks through at least stars 1 and 2?  Or does it seem that this obverse die was already cracked by the time it was put into use?

 

Thanks,

Winston

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Steven Kawalec wrote:

Does anyone know where I can find a copy of "Federal Half Dimes 1792-1837".  All I have is the Valentine book which isn't much help.  I would like to thank Richard Meaney's comments and photos of the reverses.  They were a huge help and I would like to have a copy of the book.

 

Thanks to all and happy Holidays,

Steven Kawalec

 

JR Newsletter: 11 December 2011 (66)

David Quint wrote:

A few thoughts on the mysterious 1833 JR-2 proof dime sold on eBay. The photograph certainly appears to be exactly that; while circulation strikes of the JR-2 bear the familiar lower obverse crack, at least one known proof example, and this coin, do not. The only two 1833 proof dimes to appear at auction (as far as I know) since 1980 were the Pittman/Benson/Turtle Rock specimen in an NGC Proof-66 holder and the Bowers&Merena 6/89:90 (later Heritage 8/08:1605) now in a PCGS  Proof-66 holder. Neither of these coins is the one pictured in the eBay sale (in fact the coin in the eBay sale is one I have never seen). There is another example in the Smithsonian collection (according to the late, great Russ Logan).  NGC claims to have graded two Proof-66 coins and two in 65, and PCGS lists one each in 64, 65, and 66. Some of these (or all) could be re-grades of the same coins. There are no known circulation strikes extant with a grade higher than MS-63.

The eBay seller has only sold 5 coins on the site (plus some stamps), and what I find most interesting is that if you look at his past sales, they include several 19th Century type coins whose photos look to be of very high grade (raw) coins. And in each of those auctions, the seller states in his description "photos are reference photos".  Huh?  Reference photo? The buyer feedback in these deals range from "thanks for the credit" to "had problem and seller resolved" to "A++++"(!).  Could this be a (non-stolen) gem proof, raw, bust dime? Sure. I guess anything is possible. But especially given this seller's proclivity to market coins based on "reference photos", call me suspicious. What is the main mystery to me is where he got this particular reference photo; maybe someone on this board knows of an example for which I am not aware.

David Quint
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Alan Bricker wrote:

I am commenting regarding the eBay listing of an 1833 JR-2 dime as reported in the issue dated December 4, 2011. Not even to mention the short sale and no-return, a brief investigation of the seller's feedback history, etc. quickly reveals this listing to be almost certainly fraudulent. Another listing showed a "Gem BU" 1853 NO ARROWS / No Rays quarter, "selling" for a mere $200(!) ... probably an online community discussion arose regarding this listing. Note also that the seller's eBay purchases involved only low-end coins and that most of the limited number of transactions involved low-end stamps. My guess is that the images used in those high-end coin listings had been stolen from a different website. If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.
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David Lange wrote:

Per the discussion about corrugations on the reverse of O-105 halves, I suspect that these may have been caused by contact with feeder fingers of the press. Adam Eckfeldt devised some sort of feeding mechanism years earlier, but I don't know of any illustration of it. If this is indeed what happened, it likely affected an obverse die, as well. Perhaps the damage to the obverse was so severe that the die was pulled from the press and discarded.

On the other issued raised of a phantom proof dime on eBay, the photos shown of the 1833 Bust Dime were lifted from the NGC archive. I thought these looked suspiciously like very early Photo Proof images, and I found the originals in our database. I'm attaching them, reduced in size, for comparison. The image names include the certification number as it stood in 1995, though the coin may have been resubmitted one or more times since then.

By the way, Photo Proof has come a long way, and our photos are now vastly superior to these. Our staff photographer is Doug Plasencia, formerly with Bowers & Merena and Stack's for many years.

Dave

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Brad Karoleff wrote:

We need to begin planning for the upcoming EAC/JRCS convention in Buffalo. We need moderators for the silver happening room. Anyone interested in volunteering please contact me at bkaroleff (at) yahoo.com. We also need suggestions of die marriages for each denomination to study. Anyone planning on attending the show is welcome to participate. Please give us your suggestions. More information about the convention can be obtained from the EAC website at www.eacs.org.

We also need your nominations for consideration for the JRCS Hall of Fame. You can nominate as many individuals as you wish for either the veteran category, those contributing to the hobby prior to the advent of JRCS or the modern category, those participating since the club was begun. This is a great way to recognize the collectors and researchers tat have contributed to our hobby. It all begins with your nominations.

The latest issue of the journal, the last for the year, is going to the printers this week. You can expect to see it in your mailbox soon. There will also be a ballot for the voting on the Jules Reiver Literary Award. Please send back your votes.

There will also be a dues notice included in the envelope. Please send your renewal check to secretary Crain as soon as possible to continue receiving the JRJ. 

We will also be having a regional meeting of the JRCS at the upcoming FUN convention in Orlando. Glenn Peterson has arranged the meeting for Friday afternoon. Please check he convention program for the exact time and room number.  We will be having an educational presentation at the meeting on Bust Half patterns and related pieces.  We look forward to seeing you there.  

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Richard Meaney's response to Steven Kawalec's inquiry about the "2 and 3 line varieties" for Capped Bust Half Dimes:

If you are interested in Capped Bust Half Dimes, get a copy of "Federal Half Dimes 1792-1837" by Logan and McCloskey.  Check especially page 138 of the book to see that the vertical stripes are called pale gules.  On only three die marriages (the first three struck out of 92 currently known) does one find three pale gules.  The remaining die marriages feature two pale gules in the eagle's shield.  None of the die marriages with three pale gules are rare.  Here are some close up images of the two different types:

JR Newsletter: 4 December 2011 (65)

Jason Poe wrote:

In regards to the 1836 O-105, I too have been puzzled by the corrugations. Souders makes no mention of it, but Overton says that it is not as visible on early die states, and gets progressively worse. Obviously, it is not a planchet defect since it is present on every coin struck by the die. For readers unfamiliar with what we are talking about, please see my example shown below, graded NGC EF-40. The area in question is at the bottom of the reverse, between the leaves and the 50 C. Perhaps this might be an interesting variety to study at a future JRCS meet?

(editor's note:  click on the image to enlarge it)

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Greg Barnett wrote:

In response to Dick's question about the corrugated marks on  Reverse D  of 1836:  I have no idea what caused these marks, but I do have a further question.

Has anyone seen an O-121 with these marks, or an O-105 without them?  I have numerous examples of the O-105, all with the marks, but my O-121 does not have them, and I have not seen an image
of one that does.  I suspect that they might have been removed by lapping prior to the striking of O-121's.  (Granted there are not many examples of the O-121 to look at for reference.)  Overton states that EARLY states of the die show little or no evidence of the rays - but I believe he meant LATE states ??  The only other example of similar marks that I have seen is on the 1835 O-108.  These are referenced by Overton as "short vertical rays".

None of my O-118's have the corrugation marks.  The only examples I have from 1836 are on the O-105.

thx, Greg Barnett
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Steven Kawalec wrote:

Hi,  Have you read about the 2 and 3 line shield varieties of the 1829 Half Dime?  I have an 1829 and an 1831 slabbed AU-55 and AU-58.  They are in the bank right now and I haven't had a chance to check for myself yet.  I was hoping you or any members might have some info on mintage, rarity, value, etc...  I like to have as much info on my coins as possible, that's what it's all about, the history of it all.

Thanks,

Steven Kawalec

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Rick Andrzejewski wrote:

Early this week on eBay there appeared a possible once in a lifetime opportunity that someone won. The adage “you snooze, you lose”, well that was me. I never noticed it was a one day event. Who would offer a proof 1833 JR2 and an 1853 AR dime for only one day? I started researching if the 1833 JR2 are known in proof, yes. The seller had a no return policy and limited transactions (buys & sells) with only a few sells. I was thinking it was a counterfeit or highly polished (portrait was frosted). The JR2 are known with a die break on the obverse right on circulated issues but not on proofs. Picture (attached) was a bit dark but I couldn’t see any die breaks. After further research of the Reiver piece and rarity of the JR2, even if the piece was a polished or cleaned unc, I was going to gamble with an offer at least in the $700-$750 range. The next afternoon I looked for it to enter my bid, but couldn’t find it. I checked completed listings figuring it was taken down due to it being suspect, but found it SOLD for about $650!!!!!!!!!!!. If authentic and a proof, it was a buy of the century!!!

After reviewing further, I know I wouldn’t have chased it, but would have set a maximum bid of ~$1,000+ once I found out the Reiver piece in MS63 sold for over $5k. It looked like the bidder was a buyer/collector of bust dimes. Hopefully he is a JCRS member and if the coin is real, would share his story with us in an upcoming JCRS issue. Would be interested in comments from other busties once they review the photos.

(editor's note:  The photos below came from the ebay auction.  Also, you can view the closed ebay auction in a new window by clicking here)

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JR Newsletter: 27 November 2011 (64)

Bob Stark wrote:

I was at the Baltimore Show on Thursday, November 18 until mid-afternoon. The crowd was moderate. However, what seems new is the increasing national draw. I was glad to see some friends who came from a distance. The number of dealers from the west and mid-west seemed larger to me than just a few years ago. The Stack's auction had more sessions than past years.
 

Bob Stark

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Dick Kurtz wrote:

One bust half anomaly that continues to puzzle me is the presence of "corrugation" on some lower reverses of the 1836 O.105 and O.121 (a shared reverse) and also on my 36-118. It appears that this is not a result of rolling the metal strip prior to cutting the planchets, since the parallel markings are confined the area around the "50 C." Does anyone out there have an idea on how these were formed. Has anyone seen the corrugation marks on other 1836 die marriages or on bust half dates?

Dick Kurtz JRCS 049

JR Newsletter: 20 November 2011 (63)

No contributions this week, so I will treat you all to some half dimes.  I hope for next week's newsletter, we get some reports from Baltimore...especially from half dollar collectors who had significant opportunities with the Dale Heisler collection offered for sale.

I went to the Bay State Show in Boston on Veterans Day and purchased this 1835 LM-3 half dime (PCGS MS63).  Click on these images to view a larger picture.

The coin is an upgrade to my set.  My former set piece (still sitting in the safe deposit box) is this cool-looking PCGS AU50: