Sunday, January 12, 2025

JR Newsletter: 12 January 2025 (655)

One contribution for the week, Scott McKenzie wrote:

 

My two cents as a collector regarding CAC third party services

 

Be it here with the JR Newsletter, or across the various hobby boards online, it seems most folks, Dealer or Collector, recognize the benefit of what CAC offers the hobby. Then there are those, which from my impressions appear to be in the minority, hold the opinion CAC’s initial service of offering the “bean”, an additional expert opinion on top of the encapsulated opinion, is a bridge too far, a gimmick, a racket…. 

 

I’ve been collecting coins for a few decades now. I feel CAC has been nothing but positive for the hobby on the whole. For so many reasons listed by folks far more knowledgeable than myself. 

 

From a collector standpoint, I would think if one does not see the benefits of CAC and looks at it more so as a gimmick, I would think that collector likely looks at all TPG’s and encapsulation thru a negative lens and as some sort of gimmick or waste of money. For me, they've helped me evolve as a collector, sharpen my eye, learn, better protect my investments and hopefully maximize my return when that day comes for me or for my heirs. And there are probably a few other benefits I've neglected to mention here, as I kill time waiting for my dinner reservation.

 

Collect raw, saddle up to one TPG only, or play the field... different strokes for different folks, just enjoy the coins!

 

Kind Regards,

S.Mckenzie 

 

Sunday, January 5, 2025

JR Newsletter: 5 January 2025 (654)

Alan Weinberg wrote:

 

With respect to Brad K’s retort favoring CAC and  other “ approval “ 3rd party stickers : there are 3 phrases I note he emphasizes : “ the marketplace”,  “ premium prices “ and  “ seasoned collectors”.

 

So it is all about financial aspects of “ stickering “  slabbed / stickered coins to get a higher price and sell more readily ? Perhaps for dealers, but not for “ seasoned collectors “ of which I am one. And this is also true for the vast majority of “ seasoned “ dealers and collectors 

I’ve talked with. In fact , many do not even like slabbing, ridiculing the lack of the tactile pleasure of handling a  rare coin, not being able to weigh or examine a rim or even appreciate the coin’s true beauty and patina by turning it in the light.

 

Sure, slabbing is unfortunately wise when going to sell as more recent   “ collectors” / investors require slabbing and “ stickers “ because they are not knowledgeable enough to trust their own judgement. I auctioned my own six decade rare coin collection 2019-2022 over several sessions and every coin was “ raw “ carefully selected over many years including five 1793 Chain cents, a full set of 1792 American  patterns and the finest CONDITION  Mass colonial silver coin ever formed. The  auction house slabbed every coin at their cost. I cringed but yielded to their 

judgment.

 

My Brasher Doubloon  is “ stickered “ - talk about  “  gilding the lily “ . This I still kept, having first passed  on it in 1962 for $14,000.

 

See image below

 

Alan V Weinberg




--

Rick Sorenson wrote in response to Jim Matthews:

 

Jim, I look forward to your auction of your bust dimes. I'm down to three. I started half dimes now and wish I would have figured this out decades ago. 

 

         I don't know if this can go out to all members but I will list the Bust half dimes i need.

 

 1829 6.1 6.3 7.3 8 9 10 13.2 15.1 15.2 

1830 4.1 5 6 8 10 11 

1831 1.1 7

1832 8.2 9.1 9.2 10.1 10.3 10.4 

1833 3.1 4.3 5. 

1835 5.2 8.2 9.2 12 

1836 1.1 

 

        I don't need them slabbed, actually i break them out. I prefer vf 25 to xf 40. If any member would like to send me a list of coins that they would be willing to sell I would be greatly interested. 

 

Rick Sorenson

rickandjoni(at)comcast.net

 

Happy Holidays

--

 

David Perkins wrote:

 

W. David Perkins and Jim Matthews will have Table 215 at next week’s FUN Show.  Lots from the first half of the James Matthews Collection of early dimes will be available for viewing.

 

Lots for the Early U. S. dimes from the first Fixed Price List (FPL) and Sealed Bid Sale (SBS) sessions for the James Matthews Collection will be available for viewing at our Table 215.  There are approximately 80 Lots in the first half of this sale.  This collection was put together by Jim over the last 40-50 years!  The majority of the Lots are graded by PCGS, a number of which are housed in older holders.  The Capped Bust Dime collection is complete except for one “R-8 Die Marriage,” missing in all but two collections.  

 

Collectors and Dealers may Register for the sale and get on my Early Dime mailing list at the show, or by e-mail at wdperki(at)attglobal.net  .  If you are not attending the FUN Show you are welcome to have a trusted friend view Lots for you.  High resolution photos will be available in March 2025.  A catalog will be sent out at that time.  If you are unsure if you are on the early dime mailing list just drop me a note and I’ll double check this.

 

We will also have many early silver and copper coins, including a fair number of early dollars 1795 to 1803.

 

JRCS dues may be dropped off to David Perkins, Treasurer at our Table 215.  Checks should be made out to JRCS.  

 

Hope to see you in Orlando!

 

 

W. David Perkins

Centennial, CO

 

wdperki(at)attglobal.net

 

Cell 303-902-5366

--

Addendum (added January 6): From Sheridan Downey


My 59th "Mail Bid" Sale closes Friday Jan. 10 at 6 PM EST.  Lots may be previewed at my FUN Show bourse tables 438-440 all day Thursday and Friday.  The sale is highlighted by an 1805 O.114 (lot 56), one of only 2-known examples.  The number of colorfully toned bust half-dollars - with nice surfaces - is extraordinary.  Descriptions and photos of all 96 coins are available on my website, https://www.sheridanscoins.com/inc_active-mb.php.  Active bidders are welcome to pick up a copy of the catalog at my table.  The catalog may be downloaded here, https://www.sheridanscoins.com/inc_News.php.

Happy New Year to all!

Sheridan 

Sunday, December 29, 2024

JR Newsletter: 29 December 2024 (653)

Jim Matthews wrote an announcement of an upcoming opportunity to own some of his bust dimes:


The time has come for me to part with my beloved Early United States Dime collection. There are a few interesting Draped Bust dimes included, but the majority of my focus on this collection has been to acquire all the Capped Bust die pairings and as many of the later die states as I could find over the span of some 45 years. Long ago in 1979 I went to my first ANA show in St. Louis, and I had the opportunity to meet the authors of the yet to be published Early United States Dime book. Their enthusiasm launched my collection of dimes by variety in that year. 

 

When the new variety book on Draped Bust and Capped Bust dimes was published in late 1984 by the five authors, I dove headlong into collecting die varieties at both coin shows and auctions. Over the years I was able to obtain at least one example of all the known die pairings of Capped Bust dimes save for the extremely rare 1827 JR-14 which I believe still has only two examples reported to exist.

 

Naturally I chose the well-known dealer and numismatist W. David Perkins to sell my collection of dimes, after his stunning success with the sale of my half dime variety set a dozen years ago. The sales will be held in conjunction with the Central States Numismatic Society coin show in late April 2025 and at the Oklahoma City ANA national money show in mid-August 2025. The rarer die varieties, condition rarities and intriguing die states will be offered in a Sealed Bid Sale format at these two shows, and the balance of the coins offered in a Fixed Price List format soon after the two Sealed Bid Sales have been closed at the two upcoming national shows. 

 

Selections from the upcoming Sealed Bid Sale and Fixed Price list coins for Central States will be available for viewing at the FUN show in early January and again at the Baltimore coin show in late March of 2025. A catalog will be available online well prior to the Sealed Bid Sale Auction and Fixed Price lists with extensive descriptions, die state information and pedigrees as well as photographs. Over the years I obtained coins from each of the dime book authors, and several other important sales as well, and a few plate coins are included from the original Dime variety book of 1984 and more plate coins from the more recent Bust Dime Variety Identification Guide by Zack, Scuderi and Sherrill.

 

I have included a couple of photographs of two of my favorites, the 1834 JR-5 dime with full cud at the date, and the 1835 JR-1 with retained cud at the arrowheads.

 

More information will be forthcoming soon!

 

Jim Matthews

 

 



 

--

Brad Karoleff wrote:

 

Well Mr. Safir, as President Reagan once said, "Here we go again!"

See my comments to each of your comments below....

 

(Brad’s comments will be shown in italics.  Editor)

 

Ruben Safir wrote:
 
With regard to CAC post grading, it was written that people don't like
change and that CAC is like getting a second opinion.

Two retorts:

A) What people don't like more than "change" is to be conned... and CAC
is  Con

You are definitely entitled to your opinion but in this case the marketplace has soundly refuted your opinion.  CAC approved coins consistently bring premium prices compared to their non-stickered cousins.  You may think it is a con, but most seasoned collectors disagree with your assessment.  If you don't like their service, simply do not use it.

B) Asking a second opinion is never a bad idea... yeah that is garbage
FUD to support a giant Con.  CAC is far more than just a second opinion.

How is it "far more than a second opinion"?  If you never ask a second opinion and merely rely on your own judgement, fine for you but you are missing out on valuable information.  

As for coins with CAC stickers... I avoid them because they are overpriced, and I refuse to be conned out of my money.  Avoiding CAC products, stickers and slabbing service, is definitely your right but slandering their product is not.  Your opinion that they are overpriced is contradicted by the marketplace where the majority of collectors WILLINGLY part with their money for the service.

 

 I assume from your comments that you do not purchase other certified coins also.  Do you think all slabbing is a Con or do you just have a problem with CAC?  If you disagree with their assessments fine but, again, it is an OPINION that someone paid for and others respect.  Just accept that and go about collecting what you enjoy in your budgetary boundaries and allow the rest of us to do the same.  Again, this is my personal opinion based on my experiences.  I have NO ownership stake in the CAC or CACG services but do employ them liberally.  

 

Brad Karoleff

--

 

Alan Weinberg wrote:

 

Meticulously hand engraved:

 

In Memoriam Lt. Silas M. Perkins Co. K . 32 Maine Reg’t. Died June  22d 1864 Aged 23 Years.

H.M. Maling Kennebunkport (below along bottom rim) . All on proof-like reverse surfaces on a worn VF 1826 bust half

 

Very likely either hand engraved by Maling or sponsored by Perkins’s close friend or relative. 

Silas Perkins died of wounds sustained at Cold Harbor on May 31, 1864, dying a month later having earlier been accidentally shot in his foot while in his tent.  This speaks to the primitive wound care during the Civil War where minor wounds could get infected or result in amputations 

 

See images below

 

With respect to the “necessity“ for any coin being regarded as “ worthwhile “ having a CAC sticker or other “verifying“ 3rd party sticker applied to the assigned slab grade- this is hogwash and just a scam to make more money on top of slab fees. Sadly, it has taken hold of dealers and collectors resulting in unfathomable differences in “market value.“ That’s my opinion after 67 years active and knowledgeable collecting.

 

 



 

 

 

Sunday, December 22, 2024

JR Newsletter: 22 December 2024 (652)

Ruben Safir wrote:

 

With regard to CAC post grading, it was written that people don't like
change and that CAC is like getting a second opinion.

Two retorts:

A) What people don't like more than "change" is to be conned... and CAC
is  Con


B) Asking a second opinion is never a bad idea... yeah that is garbage
FUD to support a giant Con.  CAC is far more than just a second opinion.

As for coins with CAC stickers... I avoid them because they are overpriced and I refuse to be conned out of my money.

Sunday, December 15, 2024

JR Newsletter: 15 December 2024 (651)

On the ongoing discussion of CAC Grading …

 

 James Higby wrote:

 

For the record, I own a few "green-beaned" coins.  I did not purchase them for the beans.  I purchased them for being the grades assigned by PCGS and NGC as I interpret them.  Each and every time that I take out a slabbed coin for a new look, I say to myself that yes, it is the grade assigned.  No, it is not any better than the grade assigned if a bean is present.  Obviously, the person who had the coin beaned thought differently and paid extra to prove his hypothesis - to himself.  That's his privilege.  But once that same coin is in my collection I can call it anything I want.  That's my privilege.  Thanks for listening.  End of rant.

--

 

Sean Kelly wrote:

 

A bravura performance by Brad Karoleff.  I might add two things: CACG will combine orders into one return box, saving on shipping/insurance costs and reducing instances of risk by putting multiple boxes in the ether. CACG registry will allow other holders, thus obviating the need to cross everything to their slabs.

--

 

John Bailey wrote:

 

Brad,

Your comments on third party grading and the CAC seal of approval are spot on.

CAC is like asking for a second opinion. That’s never a bad idea in coins or anything else in life.

The fact that long time collectors push back on this is only natural. People do not like change.

That said PCGS, NGC & CAC are now the market standard for U.S. coins. Personally, all my coins are slabbed and stickered.

At this point I only buy coins that are already slabbed and stickered.

 

John D. Bailey

--

 

Also, Steve Herrman wrote on a completely different topic:

 

The new, December 2024 revision of Auction Prices Realized for Early Silver Dollars 1794-1803, Number 6, is now available. The availability of printed copies is limited. $3 is donated to JRCS for each copy sold.

 

Printed copies are $40 postpaid via Media Mail

PDF format copies are $28 via Email

Both printed and PDF format copies are $46

 

Please contact Steve Herrman at herrman102(at)aol.com

--


From the Editor:


I recently read on Facebook that Bill Luebke passed away on August 23, 2024. Many may not know or recall that Bill initiated "JR News" before handing it to me in 2009.  He thought it was a good idea to create a regular email so that JRCS members and other interested people could exchange information about our hobby.  

 

 

 

Sunday, December 8, 2024

JR Newletter: 8 December 2024 (650)

We have additional responses to one reader’s inquiry in prior issues of the JR Newsletter about CAC grading.  


First, from Brad Karoleff:



The last two weeks’ JR Newsletters (JRN) have had comments concerning the new CACG grading company.  I would like to take a moment to answer the author’s questions/concerns, based on my experiences.

First, to be perfectly transparent, I have chosen CACG to grade my personal collection.  I will explain the reasons later, as well as the PRELIMINARY results.  I plan an article(s) later detailing my experiences that will be published in the John Reich Journal.

Jack initially wrote in JRN #648 about CACG placing a pre-embossed CAC emblem on each holder.  That is, of course, their corporate logo identifying the company. The other grading services proudly display their corporate logos on their holders.  Would you want PCGS or NGC to remove their corporate identity from their holders?  Just because it looks like the “green bean” applied to PCGS and NGC holders for superior coins contained in their plastic should not cause any confusion as the new CACG holders do not resemble any other services holders.  

In the latest newsletter, #649, James wrote he believes “CAC is a racket”.  Why?  Is it different from any other third party grading service in what they provide the collector?  NO!  They provide their OPINION of the grade of the coin submitted.  Their opinion may differ from the other major services- usually to the stricter side- is that the problem?  He states that he began collecting when Brown and Dunn was the accepted system. That would also mirror my introduction to the hobby.  When Photograde was first published, I remember collectors criticizing the “new looser standards” they introduced.  

The next step in professional grading happened with the ANA providing photo certificates authenticating coins submitted and offering their opinion of grades on the coin- separate obverse and reverse grades!

PCGS then entered the marketplace with their certified “slabs”, increasing security of the process.  NGC soon followed becoming PCGS’s main competitor.  We all know what has happened over the years with the modifications in each company’s holders and grading standards which is often referred to as grade inflation.  Prized older holder coins are often worth more for a reason that is not always the rarity of the holder itself.  Only time will tell if CACG can retain their grading standards through market fluctuations and changes in the grading room.  

The CAC STICKERING service came into being to identify premium coins in both PCGS and NGC holders.  We now had a grading company that was grading the other grading companies.  Was their pushback to this?  Certainly, but the marketplace soon spoke loudly, showing superior prices realized for those “green beaned” coins.  Some collectors became so “married” to the concept that they do not purchase anything for their collections that does not don the bean.  This excludes many coins from their consideration that are still considered nice, acceptable coins by many in the marketplace.  Each collector determines the standards for his set.  Employing the grading services PROFESSIONAL opinion is significant, but not the final answer.  Personal knowledge is still, and always should be, king.

Now, let me discuss why I have PERSONALLY decided on CACG for grading my coins.  

1.  I agree with John’s philosophy that grading standards should not change over time. Sticking to a fixed standard, even if not everyone agrees, over time, will result in predictable pricing results.  Ever wonder why sight unseen and sight seen bids are so much different for coins in other holders?

2.  I have graded many coins through each of the services mentioned above.  I continue to use each service for different coins based on a business decision for each individual coin. Return time is one of the major reasons for some of the decisions.

3.  Since I have employed all the services for many years, I do have a few perspectives based on my individual experiences.  Most importantly when something goes wrong, how is it handled?  Most recently the other two grading services have changed ownership structure and customer relations, in my opinion, has significantly suffered.  In the past I was able to talk with someone at either service who either had numismatic knowledge or knew when to forward me to someone who did.  Calls now go to a call center and questions are answered by someone reading a FAQ sheet.  I cannot adequately describe my frustration with a recent conversation with one of the services.  I finally just gave up and submitted my coins to CACG.  If there is a problem at CACG you will be speaking with someone physically present at CACG who has general numismatic knowledge or who will be willing to get someone to help you that does. This is A MAJOR advantage in my book.

4.  Pricing and turnaround times are competitive or better than the other services.  

5.  The team at CACG has been carefully built with extremely respected members.  The team leaders have extensive experience in the industry and are well respected members of the community.  

6.  John offered me a very fair deal in getting my collection pedigreed and identified with attributions.  One of the other services refused to even consider pedigreeing my collection that was 98% complete by die marriage as it would not place high enough in their census because I collect primarily XF grades, not AU-UNC.

7.  In addition, I was able to arrange for drop-off and pickup service at their facility to prevent the possibility of loss during shipping.  I have spent a lifetime putting together the collection and am not willing to trust it to third party delivery. 

Some may look at this as an advertisement for CACG.  It is my PERSONAL experience and my PERSONAL decision.  I understand many of the leaders will have ties to the registry sets at other services and that is their personal decision, which I support.  I did what I thought would be the best for me and my heirs.  I am happy to discuss experiences with anyone interested.  So far, mine at CACG has been very positive- if not always in agreement with my previous assessment.  

 

Brad Karoleff

--

 

Next, we have input from Alan Weinberg:

 

I started collecting in 1958 so I’m glad to read that James Higby has been collecting 70 years. 

Numismatics was fun back then. Bright or dipped was good, naturally toned coins were frowned upon. Slabbing was non-existent and you had to “know your stuff”. 

 

My mentors were Aaron Feldman (“buy the book before the coin”), Bill Anton Jr and John Ford  (both of whom you had to watch your back but who were friendly with plenty of advice). I followed their collecting tastes.  Today it’s all about grade/market value with silly $ differences for even “plus” signs. It seems the coin is quite secondary to the plastic slab grade  or CAC sticker for too many collectors.

 

Alan V Weinberg

 

 

 

 

Sunday, December 1, 2024

JR Newsletter: 1 December 2024 (649)

This is Glenn Peterson and I have been intrigued about bust dimes with cuds. I am planning to write an article about bust dime cuds updating information about this late die state coins. If you have information about these coins or photographs of the coins please email me gpeters(at)tds.net  


Thanks

Glenn

--

 

In response to last week’s question concerning CAC posted by reader Jack, James Higby wrote:

 

I think CAC is a racket.  I have several CAC'd items that are the numerical  grade on the holder, but otherwise not special in any way.  BTW, I started collecting 70 years ago, when Brown & Dunn were about all there was.

 

James