Sunday, November 28, 2010

JR Newsletter: 28 November 2010 (12)

Brad Karoleff wrote:

A few comments concerning the last newsletter:
Per Ricky Beale's question, the JRCS does not keep a condition census for early silver

JRCS does do the early silver coins.  We have a census for each denomination that is reported in order from half dimes through dollars.  All of the dates from the earliest through the end of each series is covered except for the half dollars which have a separate census that is published between the quarters and the Capped Bust series.  We do not keep, in house, a separate updated census.  Some individual collectors do this research on their own.  We would love to see some articles from them on their insights.

Steve's input will give a very good idea of the approximate value of the coin in question.  I think all half dollar collectors should order Steve's AMBR for price research.  He also donates a portion of each sale to the club.  Thanks Steve!

Brad also wrote:

I would like to hear suggestions on which die marriages we should present for study at the upcoming EAC/JRCS meeting for the "Happenings" part of the EAC Show.  Typically, we choose one die marriage from each series collected by JRCS members.  Also, we will need volunteers to staff each table during the happenings part of the show.  Volunteers will answer questions asked about the coins and ensure the coins are secure/accounted for.


David J. Davis wrote:

While filing away a few of my recent auction catalogue purchases today, I came across an early C/S dollar for the people keeping track of same.
The George Farrier sale 5/2/1876 Lot 753 listed an 1801 dollar "Fair, but stamped R. & L."  It would be hard to tell what that grade would be equivalent to today, but if someone should have the coin, they now have an early provenance for it.

Here is a message to all of you who have written an article for the JR Journal or would like to:  Time to fire up your word processors and make a contribution.
I talked to Brad Karoleff yesterday and he needs some more articles for the next issue.  To keep on some kind of schedule Brad needs a steady stream of copy.

David J.

Glenn Peterson wrote:

A reply to Raymond Hale from Glenn Peterson:
      I appreciate your interest in the reeded edge bust halves. There are reasons for me to NOT include those in my book. The CBH form 1794-1836 lettered edge have the letters, stars, numbers and denomination engraved by hand and have idiosyncrasies in their placement. The engraver extensively modified the portrait and eagle as well leaving their unique traces on each coin. To the best of my knowledge the letters, stars and denomination of reeded edge halves are placed in the HUB and the portrait is not modified as is the case in lettered edge halves. I believe the date is entered separately and does provide some clue as to the die used. Also cracks are used in Reiver's VIM to identify die pairs. Attributing the reeded edge halves is a whole level of higher complexity than attributing lettered edge halves and one I have not mastered.
     The degree of modification of the eagle was the topic of a presentation given by me many years ago at the BHNC meeting at ANA years ago. The task I set for myself to identify all the reverses on 1824 by the eagle alone. Not that this is an easy or useful approach to attributing the 1824 reverses as there are many easier features to use to attribute the reverse of that date. But the fact is that it was POSSIBLE to attribute the dies just from the eagle shows the degree of modification the coiner made to the die before production. This is what makes identification of letter edged bust halves so interesting. I have identified my "key points" for identification of obverse and reverse dies of lettered edge CBH but my buddies in BHNC often choose quite different attribution points when they attribute their coins- equally useful points as the one's I chose for my book.
   Glenn Peterson


From Jim Matthews in response to Richard Meaney's contribution showing an 1831 LM-3 half dime with cud:

First off, the 1831 LM-3 with the heavy obverse crack--retained cud must be quite rare, as you say, possibly R-7. I obtained one like your lower grade example 3 years ago, and if I'd seen that die state any time in the prior 20 years at a coin show or auction I'd probably have bought it. Furthermore Logan's wasn't nearly that late--with the die section through stars 2 to 6 stable, but the crack appears well developed. Obviously the example of the very late retained cud photographed in the book would be a true prize! I notice that Jules didn't have an example with the retained cud developed either (not in the main section or the back of the auction section of lower grade duplicates). Therefore, two major specialists did not obtain an example of this late die state, a strong indication of rarity.

I define an "early retained cud" as a coin where a portion of the die shows sinking (movement from the die surface level) in a defined area formed by cracks. A middle retained cud is where part of the devices are considerably weaker on at least one part of the cud area. A late retained cud is where these is little definition in the cud area but the opposing area on the opposite side of the coin is still well struck. A full cud is where the cud area has chipped away from the die, and the area opposite on the coin is also weakly struck (dentils/stars/date etc).

Does anyone else out there have an example of this rare die state of the 1831 LM-3 half dime?