Sunday, November 8, 2015

JR Newsletter: 8 November 2015 (266)

Lots of input for this week's newsletter.  First, we have an original contribution from David Finkelstein:

Click this link to read, "Dr. David Rittenhouse – Part 3."

Brad Karoleff wrote:

The next issue of the JR Journal is coming up and we could use a couple submissions to fill out the issue.

Please send your article, letter to the editor or anything else you would like to see published for consideration to the editor at

Thanks and happy upcoming holidays to all.

Please note that we have a room reserved for the upcoming FUN show in TAMPA this year on Friday.  Please stay tuned for more information and plan on joining us in sunny Florida this January.

We also have continued discussion over early dollars:

Robert Stark wrote:

Thanks to John Kroon for the early dollar information and links.  I wasn't aware of the rankings; usually paying little attention to them.

I have the Hesselgesser PCGS AU50 PQ CAC as described in the Goldberg Sale in May 2012. I also have the Spies Specimen from the December 1974 Stack's Sale cited as "Fine to Very Fine. A Rarity 7 item and well worth a premium bid."

Clearly, there is value in collectors of early dollars communicating among themselves. I'm at

David Perkins wrote:

John Kroon wrote in last week’s JR News:

There is a mistake in the PCGS population data which is shown in the Miller Collection of Early Dollars.  For the 1800 Wide Date, Low Eight, Americai (BB-191) variety, the PCGS data shows the total pop as 1.  That coin would be the Miller PCGS MS 62 +.

I own an 1800 Wide Date, Low Eight, Americai PCGS XF 45, CAC.  The PCGS insert for my coin states BB-191, which clearly establishes my XF 45 as an 1800 Wide Date, Low Eight, Americai.  The Cardinal Collection has a BB 191 in PCGS AU 58, and the Hesselgesser shows an AU 50.   The total PCGS pop data for this variety BB-191 should be at least 4, (not 1, as listed in the Miller Collection PCGS total pop column).   The 4 coins are the Miller MS 62+, the Cardinal AU 58, the Hesselgesser AU 50, and my XF 45.

I too have been puzzled by PCGS listing the Total Pop as 1 for the 1800 Wide Date, Low 8 AMERICAI Dollar in the Miller Registry Set.  The Miller 1800 “Wide Date, Low 8 AMERICAI” dollar in PCGS MS62+ is listed to the right of the photos and entry for this dollar in this category as having a total pop of 1 and none finer.  In fact, this is the finest known and only Mint State example of this type, but not the only example of this type graded by PCGS.  This coin is numbered as “PCGS # 40081” in the Registry Set.

 Looking in PCGS Coin Facts, I located PCGS coin # 86888 (which is also noted as coin # 40081, which also is confusing to me).

John listed 4 coins of this type known to him.  Coin Facts shows that PCGS has graded 14 coins in their population report for their coin # 86888, the “1800 $1 Wide Dt, Low 8, AMERICAI (Regular Strike)” type.  Here is the link to this pop report: .

Here is the pop report, in the format, “Grade (Quantity Graded)”: 12 (1) / 15(1) / 20 (1) / 30 (1) / 35 (2) / 40 (2) / 45 (2) / 50 (2) / 53 (1) / 58 (1) / 62 – None.  The PCGS Pop Report in the Registry Set shows only one coin graded, the PCGS MS62+.  This PCGS Coin Facts pop report includes the 14 coins graded F-12 to AU-58, with none higher than AU-58 and none in MS62 or higher (no P62+!).  This is an obvious contradiction.

If you click on “Images for PCGS coin # 86888 you get a photo of the Miller P62+, along with two 50s, two 45s, one 35, one 15, and one 12.

If you go to the PCGS Price Guide you find only two choices that fit this type with prices listed on the main page, neither of which are exactly right for this type – 1800 AMERICAI, coin # 6892, and 1800 Wide Date, Low 8.  There is no pricing given for the 1800 Wide Date, Low 8 AMERICAI type.

John stated that he owns an example of the 1800 B-11, BB-191 AMERICAI, which the equivalent die marriage for the PCGS Registry type officially called 1800 Wide Date, Low 8 AMERICAI (Regular Strike). 

There exists an 1800 B-19, BB-192 AMERICAI die marriage which is still another PCGS type, called the 1800 AMERICAI by PCGS (and others).  The same reverse die was used to strike these two AMERICAI die marriages, with BB-191, B-11 probably having been struck first.  An 1800 B-11, BB-191 die marriage falls under this type also, but is a more valuable coin if classified as the correct die marriage or correct type rather than “just an 1800 AMERICAI.”

One other die marriage should be mentioned.  This is 1800 B-10, BB-190.  This mates the obverse of 1800 B-11, BB-191 with the previously used reverse die 1800 B-5, BB-189.  This as a type coin is called the 1800 Wide Date, Low 8 by PCGS (and 1800 Very Wide Date, Low 8) in the Red Book.

In conclusion, John observations are correct.  The PCGS Pop Report as listed in the PCGS Registry for the early dollar type set is wrong unless PCGS intended it to mean “one in Mint State, none finer” as discussed earlier.  This makes no sense to me as they say Total Pop of 1 also. 

The Coin Facts Pop Report for coin # 86888 (and #40081) is more accurate as it shows a number of coins in different grades for this PCGS type.  And all dollars of this type if correctly noted will be examples of the 1800 B-11, BB-191 die marriage.

The 1800 B-11, BB-191 die marriage is R-5 and is Conditionally Rare in grades of XF45 and higher, with only one Mint State example known, the Miller-Amon Carter coin graded PCGS MS62+.   Less than 10 examples are known to me in AU grades.  The 1800 B-19, BB-190 die marriage is R-2, with multiple examples known in Mint State.  1800 B-11, BB-191 dollars if correctly attributed to die marriage and / or type realize much higher prices in the market.

W. David Perkins
Centennial, CO

John Kroon also wrote:

In reviewing the PCGS pop reports for the various registry sets, one finds other discrepancies.  The Hesselgesser set PCGS total pop for BB-191 shows 2.  The Cardinal set PCGS total pop for BB-191 shows 0.  Yet the comments box immediately to the right of the 0 discuss the AU-58 coin.  How can the total pop be 0, when the comments reference an AU-58 coin?  Other registry sets state 1 for the total pop of BB-191.

For your reference, my 1800 PCGS XF-45 CAC BB-191 is certificate 25536867

John Kroon