JR Newsletter: 27 February 2011 (25)

Steve Crain announces the half dime census:

The next issue of the "John Reich Journal" will contain a notice of the next Bust half dime census, advising all JRCS member half dime collectors to submit their census of all Bust half dimes in their collections. The census will include any and all examples of the 1792 Half Disme, Flowing Hair, Draped Bust, and Capped Bust half dimes. The census will be compiled and published in the Spring issue of the John Reich Journal. Please submit your census of all half dimes in your collection, by date, die marriage, remarriage, and by grade, including duplicates, to:

Stephen A. Crain 

John Reich Collectors Society
P. O. Box 1680
Windham, ME 04062

Please include your JRCS membership number with your census. All collections will be anonymously reported using only your membership number, and all information reported will be kept strictly confidential.

Please also include any of the remarriage numbers in your collection, as listed in "Federal Half Dimes 1792 - 1837", by Russell J. Logan and John W. McCloskey. I can only report the information that is provided to me, but most collectors would like to see a breakdown by remarriage, rather than just by marriage. If you have not attributed the remarriages, and only have them by marriage, please report them anyway, and they will be included. Even if your collection is still attributed by Valentine numbers, please report them and I will translate them. We would like to see significantly greater participation in this census survey than we had in the last; the greater the participation, the more meaningful the results.

You may also submit your census via email, to the following email address:  

mrhalfdime (at) aol.com

Please help us to make this half dime census survey the most comprehensive survey ever compiled.

Stephen A. Crain
Half Dime Census Keeper - JRCS 

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Ralph Muñoz wrote:

Re: Frank Goss comments and Jim Matthews's update for the Reeded Bust Halves.  Is there currently a source of information or publication for the  "Additional Reeded Edge Half Dollars" varieties identified, since Jules Reiver's 1988 publication?????

 

P.S.   I agree the Jules was an incredible variety specialists and knowledgeable numismatist of early US type coins.

 

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Jeff Reichenberger wrote:

I just read the online version of The Numismatist, March issue. The feature story is about John Reich, by Eric Brothers. Written for the general ANA membership and not necessarily geared to JRCS members, the article has a somewhat rudimentary tone and I'm not sure all the facts are straight (I have to look up a few things, for instance, I don't recall the monogrammed clasp theory being universally accepted among experts ), but kudos to him for bringing to light the 'overworked and under-appreciated' aspect of John Reich to the rest of the numismatic community.

-Jeff

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Gary Rosner wrote:

The 1825 Half Dollars have two different obverse master dies for the year. In Bust Half Fever they are numbered obverse master dies #4 and #5. Can anyone tell me which obverses are from the newer master die #5? In Overton, Peterson, and Souders they all mention that some of the obverses are form the new master die but none of them specify which obverses. There are 15 obverses for 1825 and one book mentions that 4 of the obverses use the new master die #5. I’ve tried to figure it out from the pictures in Overton but have had a hard time distinguishing between the two master dies. In my collection I only have an O-101, 105, and 110 in the VF-XF grade range. Anyone's help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

 

Gary Rosner

JR Newsletter: 20 February 2011 (24)

Ralph Muñoz wrote:

Comments to Rick Beale and others interested to include Reeded Edge haves with lettered edge bust halves and Overton references.  One opinion may be that reeded edge halves may not be included with Overton numbers or references because these coins were minted  in closed collars with the use of steam power from 1836 on. 

Lettered edge halves were minted in open collars, which means that the edge lettering was added prior to having the obverse and reverse struck.  In addition, the lettered edge halves were struck from 1836 and earlier by the use of manual and animal power to produce these coins.  A big difference in technology, that may be used as a standard for separation. 

Another point if someone wants to include both types in one reference book, it will involve getting approval from the Overton family to amend the book.  Jules Reiver published his reference "Variety Idenfication Manual for United States Reeded Edge Half Dollars 1836-1839"  in 1988.  I think that if the two references were to come together, it would of happened by now.  My two cents worth.

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Frank Goss wrote:

With respect to Rick Beale's thought that he had seen a compilation of Reeded Edge die varieties as a PDF on the Heritage web site some time ago, but can't find it now - I remember that PDF.  It was the "Variety Identification Manual for United States Reeded Edge Half Dollars 1836 - 1839 Copyright Jules Reiver 1988".  However it did not have the "Additional Reeded Edge Half Dollar" pages for the 10 additional varieties identified by about 1997.  Heritage had a link to the PDF file with each Reeded Edge Half in the sale of Jules Reiver's colllection, Heritage sales 390 and 391, January 2006, but their archives no longer show that link.  I think they continued providing that link with other reeded edge halves in later sales for a while.  In the introduction to the VIM, Jules states "This is a preliminary work, and will grow only with the help of the collectors.  New varieties will be added, and some existing ones may be dropped.  ... JR numbers refer to John Reich numbers.  Since the reeded edge half dollars are of the bust type, they are listed by the John Reich Society, even though they were engraved by Christian Gobrecht.  Any collectors of early silver coins should belong to the Society." and he gave the address of the Society at that time.  From my association with Jules, I believe he loved all early coins by variety, and did a great amount of research on them.  To identify 58 varieties and only have 10 more identified in the following 10 years speaks well for a "preliminary" work.  I look forward to Jim Matthews' update.

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John Morgan wrote:

My name is John M. Morgan from Fairmont WV and I have a complete set of the John Reich Journals, starting with Volume 1, No 1, which I'm interested in selling. They all are in excellent condition. If anyone is interested, please email me at nagrom4 (at) labyrinth.net

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Rich Uhrich wrote:

I don't know if you have seen this yet or not, but here is a thread about an unknown buyer obtaining an 1831 B-7 quarter in Fine or so for $1,613.

Here are two links:

The ebay auction:  ebay link to 1831 quarter

Discussion on the Collectors Universe Forums:  http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=806685

JR Newsletter: 13 February 2011 (23)

Jim Matthews wrote:

In response to Rick Beale and E. Padget's interest in the 1836-1839 Reeded Edge half dollars... 

I have Jules' notes on the series and have meet with a couple of collectors to discuss a possible update of his die variety guide. I would like to meet with anyone else who collect these coins by variety to put together an update on this reference. Jules was fascinated by this short lived series, in part because the Reeded Edge half dollars were utterly overlooked by most collectors. Many coins show interesting die cracks and evidence of clashing. As the dies for the Reeded Edge halves were hubbed the placement of stars and legends no longer varied, so identifying particular varieties involves finding unique characteristics to each die, sometimes small lumps, engravers marks and eventually clashing and cracks that are all used for identifying the individual die pairings.

 

Anyone who would be interested in comparing notes, updating new die varieties and rarity ratings is welcome to contact me and hopefully enough information will be forthcoming to produce an update to this pioneering work on the series. I can be reached at bustdollar (at) yahoo.com

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Brad Higgins wrote:

Below are two images from the New York Weekly Messenger and Young Men's Advocate dated Wednesday morning, August 28th, 1833. It appears that this snippet was lifted from the Saturday Evening Post.

 

What strikes me is that in the description, the writer describes how the planchets drop on a slide directly onto the die. No mention of a collar. This coincides with what Craig Sholley mentioned at the ANA forum on minting technology. Just thought the readers of the weekly list might enjoy this.

 

Editor's note:  Click on the images to enlarge them.

 

 

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Rick Beale wrote:

Who's handling the sale of the Bob Yuell collection ? Is it in auction ? Is there a catalog ?

 

Also:

Regarding David Lange's comments about adding Reeded Edge Halves to the Overton book:

Yes, I agree the differences between die varieties is minute for the reasons mentioned. I also agree that using die states to reckon die varieties is risky, and almost useless for early die state pieces. And yes, discerning individual dies requires finely detailed work, and the analogy with Bob Grellman's Late Date Large Cent work is appropriate.

However, that analogy also proves it can be done, as indicated by the success of Bob's Late Date book. Many other coins whose master dies were made from nearly complete hubs have die variety compilations, even coins as recent as Indian cents (with thanks to Rick Snow).

I thought I had seen a compilation of Reeded Edge die varieties as a PDF on the Heritage web site some time ago, but I can't find it now. If the scholarly research portion of the work has been done, it seems reasonable to update it and include it in the next version of the Bust Half reference.

Anything less seems unfair to a beautiful and wonderful series of coins, which heretofore have been neglected. They should have Overton numbers.

Respectfully submitted,

Ricky B

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Liz Coggan wrote:

We have one more Draped Bust Half Dime we are selling (details follow).

Thanks, Liz Coggan, J J Teaparty, Inc.

 

RARE 1800 DRAPED BUST HALF DIME LM-2 RARITY-7 CHOICE FINE CONDITION. 

TO BE OFFERED FOR BIDDING IN BALTIMORE, MD AT THE WHITMAN COIN AND COLLECTIBLES SHOW, MARCH 30-APRIL 2, 2011. THE COIN WILL BE SOLD VIA SEALED BID. THE AUCTION CLOSES AT 2:00 PM SATURDAY. PLEASE PLAN TO STOP BY OUR TABLE #508 TO SEE THE COIN IN PERSON

JR Newsletter: 6 February 2011 (22)

Raymond Hale wrote:

Thanks to my uncle, who gave me his Indian cent collection, I started collecting coins about 14 years ago. I quickly fell in love with Indian-Cent variety collecting. Then I decided to also build a type set. When I picked up my first Bust Half ( an highly-lustrous, prettily-toned, 1834 Lg date, Lg letter), I fell in love with its' design.

As a practicing historian, I strive to learn as much as I can about the history of our coinage.

When I started reading about Bust-half die varieties, I was hooked. I soon decided to assemble an over-date set. By this time, I was about a "4" on the "nut" scale. I started scouring every dealer site and auction listing I could find. Of course . . ..

 I just picked up an 1819 over 18, in a PCGS 50--it's a beautiful 50, too.

While I bought it as an over-date--the 4th of the 15--I was pleased to find that it is an O-103. (I thank my newly purchased Digital Rag for that.)

I am confused, though, about its' rarity rating: If I am quoting correctly, the Overton, 3rd ed. lists it as an R3; the 4th ed as an R4; the BHNC consensus--as quoted from Stephen Herrman is also R4: and, Stephen Herrman, in his auction listings, has it at R5.

Is this my first R5 cherry pick? I would certainly love that. I was practically giddy at finding it to be an R-5 variety. Thinking " now I know what it feels like!" I can't wait to find an R7!  And this is my first acquisition, since buying the RAG.

While not the most important issue, I would appreciate any information you might offer on this coin's rarity. Thanks for all the great reading! 

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From Jim (who sent a photo of a neat Seated Half earlier):

It just dawned on me this past week (better late than never?) that I had gotten two different newsletters mixed up recently and accidentally sent you that 1861 Seated Half photo, when your newsletter is obviously only for silver Bust coinage.

I do like the various Draped and Capped Bust series also although  I am not a variety collector. I'm attaching a pic. of one of my Draped Bust halves (a 1807 PCGS F-15) for your perusal this time. Feel free to post it in the JR Newsletter if you can use it for any reason.

 

Editor's Note:  Click on the images to enlarge them.

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Michael Spurlock wrote:

Fellow collectors--

I know a lot of you are not half cent collectors, but many of you may know Bob Yuell.  Bob has collected half cents since the 60's and has assembled a top-tier set over that time.  You can also tell by his EAC #218 that he is a long-time member of our club.

Many of Bob's coins are condition census level examples.  Bob has been known as a "picky" collector, thus his collection consists of choice material.

Even if you have no interest in the Little Half Sisters, it would be nice to wish Bob the best with his health conditions and with the sale of his collection.  It is a gut-wrenching decision to sell your precious copper "babies".

Happy copper hunting!

Mike Spurlock

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Richard Meaney wrote:

Those of you interested in capped bust half dimes may want to check out an item that Heritage sold in the Long Beach auction.  Lot number 7727 was an unattributed 1836 LM-1.1 in a PCGS MS-61 holder.  With buyer's premium, it sold for $4,887.50!  Anyone out there want to fess up to winning it?  To whomever that is adding it to his or her collection, congratulations!

I also had some good luck recently, just added this raw 1831 LM-3 to my collection:

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Brad Karoleff wrote:

The "Happenings" study coins for the EAC Convention will be as follows:

1831 LM1 half dime
1827 JR1 dime
1806 B5 and 6 quarter
1808 O110 and 1817 O105 half
1798 B14 dollar

JR Newsletter: 30 January 2011 (21)

This week's contributions are half dollar focused:

E Padget wrote (concerning Rick Beale's comments on Reeded Edge Half Dollar):

I couldn't agree more with Rick's comments about RE Halves being under-appreciated (other than for type) - it's like a whole series just dropped through the cracks, and I suppose the short series has a lot to do with it - but the real reason for my comment is: Back in the '80's when I maintained a somewhat exclusive mailing list, Jules was on it, and he bought probably a dozen of my REH's, several of which were in strange die varieties and even stranger die states - one I specifically remember was an 1838 with a reverse so badly cracked it was in 3 different planes (!).
My point is: Has Jules' work been salvaged, or even recognized? What happened to his notes? Has anyone else picked up the ball here - or has anyone else started over afresh? I think these are the 1st questions that need to be answered here....

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Dave Lange wrote:

Regarding Rick Beale's comments about adding Reeded Edge Halves to the Overton book, I don't believe that this would be successful. These coins were almost entirely hubbed, and the only variables seem to be date position and random flaws such as cracks in the dies. This is how Jules Reiver attributed them, but relying solely on die states to identify individual dies and marriages is risky. Distinguishing individual dies in this series would have to be performed in minute detail, as Reiver and Bob Grellman did with late date large cents. These, too, are extremely challenging to attribute in all but a few dozen instances where there are obvious repunchings or flaws that were present in the die as made. In grades below XF, most late date large cents become nearly unattributable, since the attribution features are either worn away or obscured by accumulated circulation debris.

NGC does receive a few Reeded Edge Halves for attribution, but these seem to come almost solely from submitters who don't understand the distinction between such coins and the earlier issues which featured numerous hand-punched design elements. I imagine that we would include this series for attribution service if it were properly documented in a future edition of Overton, but I don't expect this to happen.

Dave

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Dave Tryka wrote:

Thanks for the very enjoyable newletter!  I am still pretty much a novice at collecting bust half dollars, so I fear my contributions may be somewhat limited or elementary.  That said, one of my favorite dates of bust halves is 1809, for a variety of reasons (the least of which is the edge!), so I tend to gravitate to this date when at shows or looking through dealer inventory.  Recently I acquired a nice VF example of the O-103 marriage, this was my second example and it was struck about 10% off center.  My other example of this marriage, seems to have wider dentils on one side of the obverse than the other, but the reverse is well centered.  On this example, both sides are clearly off center (editor's note:  photos are below.  Click on the images to enlarge).  Can anyone lend any insights into this?  Is it rather common across the series, or are certain marriages or die states more prone to this sort of striking issue?

Thanks,

Jeff Tryka

JR Newsletter: 23 January 2011 (20)

Nathan Markowitz wrote:

We are still in need of die marriage proposals for the happenings as I need to get this into the program for the convention.

We will be showing the 1806 B5 and B6 quarters

We plan to show the 1798 Bolender 14 bust dollar

Please send along the proposals for the other denominations to this website and myself at cascades1787 (at) yahoo.com

I hope to see many of you there for part or all of the convention.  The "happenings" happens Thursday night and you can send along your examples with a friend...or friendly dealer.  It is a monitored event.

Nathan Markowitz

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Dick Wells wrote:

I picked up a neat 1818, B10 bust quarter at FUN.  It has a counterstamp on it that runs from approximately K11 to K6 that reads, "R.A. MILLER" (photo attached). It's not identified in Brunk, but it appears to be a genuine counterstamp.  Can anyone shed any light on it?
Thanks,
Dick Wells

editor's note:  You can click on the image below to open a larger version of the image.

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Brad Karoleff wrote:

Just a little note to update the membership on the next issue of the John Reich Journal.  I have put a little family illness behind me and have received most of the information needed to put out the next issue.  I hope to be at the printers by the end of the month which would put it in the hands of the membership next month.  Sorry for the delays in printing, but I can only issue a journal when I have enough to print.  So, everyone get busy and send me something for the next issue!!!

FUN was interesting, if not very profitable.  There seemed to be a distinct lack of half dimes available on the floor.  (Maybe we just are getting older and couldn't see any of them)  The half dollars at the auction were a mixed bag.  Some of the tougher R5's seemed a little cheaper than I expected, but the competition for the nice AU coins was fierce.  It seems that there are a few strong hands looking for the same coins to complete their sets.  I know a couple of "Nuts" that were thrilled to add a DM or two to their collections.  Congratulations!  I know how hard it is to do that at a certain level, no matter how much, or little money you may have...

Rumors exist of another new early dime DM.  I hope to have more on that later......

Oh, by the way, golf was fine on Saturday except being paired with the club pro and a former player on the senior tour....Talk about intimidation....Pared the first three holes then....you get the idea.  Still had a great time including the 12 foot gator.

I really enjoyed seeing many of the guys.  It is too long between chances to get together for coins and dinner.  Thanks for a great time everyone, especially the FUN volunteers who make the show possible for the rest of us.

Brad
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Rick Beale wrote:

Regarding Reeded Edge halves...

They seem to be under-appreciated. Perhaps, for some, this is due to their short mintage run. However, that should endear them to specialists all the more! That's not happening on the whole, and I think the reason is their exclusion from the Overton book.

Hopefully the next revision of the Bust Halves reference will include them. Otherwise, we have this small yet vital area of American numismatic history uncovered in formal literature.

Sincerely wishing everyone a wonderful New Year,

Ricky B and Robin Grace
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A few notes from your editor:

I sometimes receive an email asking about John Reich Collectors Society membership issues.  Here's a brief summary of answers to such questions.

1.  An application for membership is inside the back cover of the John Reich Journal.  Also, an application is online at http://www.jrcs.org/membershipapplication.html
2.  New members, no matter what time of the membership year they pay their initial dues payment, will receive that year's full complement of three issues of the John Reich Journal.
3.  Former members who wish to re-join the JRCS may do so by completing the membership application and mailing it along with their payment.

Occasionally, someone wants a back issue of the John Reich Journal.  If you want a certain back issue, please send an email to jrnewsletter (at) jrcs.org and request the issues you need.  Not all back issues are available, but those that are will set you back just nine dollars per issue (shipping is included in that price).

JR Newsletter: 16 January 2011 (19)

Not much input this week.

Jim sent something in:

Just wanted to take a second to thank you for sending me this informative newsletter every week. Keep up the great work. I'm not a variety collector, but do love the Seated coins' design, and pick up a piece now and then.

Since you asked for letters and photos of Seated material, I thought I'd attach a photo of one of my favorites, a PCGS, AU-50, 1861 Seated Half Dollar. I love its "old silver" patina. I hope the photos are clear enough for you to see. I have no idea whether it is any special sort of die marriage or not.

Thanks,
Jim











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Editor's Comments:

Stack's has some cool coins and other numismatic items up for auction in their "Americana Sale" of January 26-27.  You might want to check it out!