Supplemental Announcement: March 7, 2011

Brad Karoleff announced that the latest issue of the "John Reich Journal" has been mailed.  Any member of the JRCS who has not received his or her copy of the journal within ten days of this announcement should contact Brad via email at bkaroleff (at) yahoo.com

JR Newsletter: 6 March 2011 (26)

Editor's note:  You can click on the images in this week's JR Newsletter if you wish to view the images in a larger size

Brad Karoleff wrote:

In last week's newsletter Gary Rosner wrote:

The 1825 Half Dollars have two different obverse master dies for the
year. In Bust Half Fever they are numbered obverse master dies #4 and
#5. Can anyone tell me which obverses are from the newer master die #5?
In Overton, Peterson, and Souders they all mention that some of the
obverses are form the new master die but none of them specify which
obverses. There are 15 obverses for 1825 and one book mentions that 4 of
the obverses use the new master die #5. I’ve tried to figure it out from
the pictures in Overton but have had a hard time distinguishing between
the two master dies. In my collection I only have an O-101, 105, and 110
in the VF-XF grade range. Anyone's help would be appreciated.
Thanks,

My notes show that there were 6 die marriages struck from the new master die (#5) in 1825.  They were; Overton numbers 101, 106, 110, 113, 114 and 117.  So Gary, you have examples from both Master dies for the year!

In my monograph, Bust Half Dollar Bibliomania, I listed all the marriages from each master die.  They are:

Master die 1, all the 1807 and 1808 die marriages.

Master die 2, used to produce hub #2, used to produce all the die marriages from 1809 through 1812 Overton numbers 101 and 102.

Master die 2, used to produce hub #3, used to produce the die marriages from 1812 O103 through part of 1817, Overton numbers 101-106, 107-109, 111,112,115,116, and 118.

Master die 3, used to produce hub #4, used to produce the remaining die marriages of 1817 into 1825, marriages O102-5, 107-9, 111,112,115,116,118.

Master die 3, used to produce hub #5, used to produce the remaining die marriages of 1825 through early 1830 Overton numbers 106,107,113,114.

Master die #3, used to produce hub #6, used to produce the remaining die marriages of 1830 through part of 1832 Overton numbers, 107,111,115,122.

Master die #4, used to produce hub #7, used to produce the remaining die marriages of 1832 through 1834 O101-110.

Master die #5, used to produce hub #8 used to produce only the abominable bastards O113, 114, 116. 

Due to Kneass's stroke old dies were pressed into service in 1835 to produce the die marriages of 1834 O121, 120, 119, 109, and 110 (which was actually struck in 1836!).

Master die #6 the small bust used to produce hub #9 which was used to strike 1834 Overton numbers 111,112,115,117,118 and all the 1835 and 1836 die marriages.

I hope this helps answer some of the questions.  This is the last information I have and think that it is still correct.  Does anyone have another opinion?

Brad

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Alan Bricker wrote:

"Jules Reiver introduced me to RE Bust Half Dollar die marriages around 1987 during one of our kitchen table chats and I was soon hooked. By about 1995 I had identified and described for Jules at least a half dozen additional RE half dollar die marriages not listed in his 1988 VIM, including the 1838 "JR-21" which I subsequently shot down as merely a die state of his JR-13. In addition, I shared my opinion that his 1837 "JR-28" did not actually represent a new die marriage. The point here is that these studies were works in progress and therefore always subject to revisions, not unlike the sort of numismatic hairsplitting inherent with the late date large cents."

Alan Bricker

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Winston Zack wrote:

I was hoping to get opinions from the JR Newsletter crew as to what may be going on with my 1802 JR-2 Draped Bust Dime from 4-6 o'clock on the obverse.  I know the coin is well worn, but the diagnostics are present to attribute the date/die marriage, even with the last digit obscured.

 

I am not primarily a Draped Bust Dime collector but I do love Cuds.  When I saw this piece I bought it because the area in question looked very much like a Cud.  The area is raised on the coin, but after I went to reference my EUSD and other resources I could not find such a feature mentioned anywhere.

 

So I am calling on the collective minds from this organization to give me their best opinion based on the photos provided.

 

Thanks,

Winston

 

 

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Nathan Markowitz wrote:

A reminder:

The 2011 EAC convention will be held at the Doubletree Hotel in Portland, Oregon.  For the first time a JRCS member(yours truly) will co-host this event along with EAC VP Bim Gander.  I would like to encourage all those who can make the trek to attend.  These shows are a tremendous opportunity to focus on early American coinage w/o the distractions often associated with a larger show.  Portland is in peak bloom and I am happy to share information about Portland, the coast, or the mountains to any prospective attendee.  We have made arrangements to rent a safe T deposit box so you can store your coins you bring to the Happenings display should you chose to bring along your spouse/family and extend your visit.  Please contact me at cascades1787 (at) yahoo.com if you have any specific questions about the convention or the Pacific Northwest....

Here is the tentative program; all events except Saturday copper auction and Friday keynote speaker dinner are FREE and open to JRCS members...

Thursday May 12;  5 PM reception (eat and meet); 8PM Happenings...show the varieties Brad Karoleff mentioned (Please consider sending along a coin or two IF you can't make it)

Friday May 13:  Bourse (about 60 tables almost solely early copper/silver.  Educational seminars and keynote speech.

Saturday May 14:  Bourse.  Educational seminars.

The educational seminars are a mix of silver, early copper and colonial talks.  There are also talks on early copper/silver valuation; grading.  Please consider giving a talk at one of these shows; they are very well received by our copper brethren!  A schedule will be posted within the next couple of weeks.  PDX airport is just a short light rail train ride from the host hotel.

DISPLAYS:  Please contact me ASAP if you are willing to do a display.  I already have a few terrific silver displays to complement the copper on show....but I am running out of time to go to press for the program and we have an unusually large bourse.  You get your own case, own key, and there are not a bunch of rules like at the big shows. Lets wow the copper folks....early silver, early gold, or a literature display would be great.

Sunday May 15:  Bourse, wrap up.

As you can see from the schedule Thursday evening until Saturday afternoon will contain the majority of coins and talks of interest to our fellow members.

And remember, NO SALES TAX in Oregon...folks come here just to shop...

JR Newsletter: 27 February 2011 (25)

Steve Crain announces the half dime census:

The next issue of the "John Reich Journal" will contain a notice of the next Bust half dime census, advising all JRCS member half dime collectors to submit their census of all Bust half dimes in their collections. The census will include any and all examples of the 1792 Half Disme, Flowing Hair, Draped Bust, and Capped Bust half dimes. The census will be compiled and published in the Spring issue of the John Reich Journal. Please submit your census of all half dimes in your collection, by date, die marriage, remarriage, and by grade, including duplicates, to:

Stephen A. Crain 

John Reich Collectors Society
P. O. Box 1680
Windham, ME 04062

Please include your JRCS membership number with your census. All collections will be anonymously reported using only your membership number, and all information reported will be kept strictly confidential.

Please also include any of the remarriage numbers in your collection, as listed in "Federal Half Dimes 1792 - 1837", by Russell J. Logan and John W. McCloskey. I can only report the information that is provided to me, but most collectors would like to see a breakdown by remarriage, rather than just by marriage. If you have not attributed the remarriages, and only have them by marriage, please report them anyway, and they will be included. Even if your collection is still attributed by Valentine numbers, please report them and I will translate them. We would like to see significantly greater participation in this census survey than we had in the last; the greater the participation, the more meaningful the results.

You may also submit your census via email, to the following email address:  

mrhalfdime (at) aol.com

Please help us to make this half dime census survey the most comprehensive survey ever compiled.

Stephen A. Crain
Half Dime Census Keeper - JRCS 

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Ralph Muñoz wrote:

Re: Frank Goss comments and Jim Matthews's update for the Reeded Bust Halves.  Is there currently a source of information or publication for the  "Additional Reeded Edge Half Dollars" varieties identified, since Jules Reiver's 1988 publication?????

 

P.S.   I agree the Jules was an incredible variety specialists and knowledgeable numismatist of early US type coins.

 

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Jeff Reichenberger wrote:

I just read the online version of The Numismatist, March issue. The feature story is about John Reich, by Eric Brothers. Written for the general ANA membership and not necessarily geared to JRCS members, the article has a somewhat rudimentary tone and I'm not sure all the facts are straight (I have to look up a few things, for instance, I don't recall the monogrammed clasp theory being universally accepted among experts ), but kudos to him for bringing to light the 'overworked and under-appreciated' aspect of John Reich to the rest of the numismatic community.

-Jeff

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Gary Rosner wrote:

The 1825 Half Dollars have two different obverse master dies for the year. In Bust Half Fever they are numbered obverse master dies #4 and #5. Can anyone tell me which obverses are from the newer master die #5? In Overton, Peterson, and Souders they all mention that some of the obverses are form the new master die but none of them specify which obverses. There are 15 obverses for 1825 and one book mentions that 4 of the obverses use the new master die #5. I’ve tried to figure it out from the pictures in Overton but have had a hard time distinguishing between the two master dies. In my collection I only have an O-101, 105, and 110 in the VF-XF grade range. Anyone's help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

 

Gary Rosner

JR Newsletter: 20 February 2011 (24)

Ralph Muñoz wrote:

Comments to Rick Beale and others interested to include Reeded Edge haves with lettered edge bust halves and Overton references.  One opinion may be that reeded edge halves may not be included with Overton numbers or references because these coins were minted  in closed collars with the use of steam power from 1836 on. 

Lettered edge halves were minted in open collars, which means that the edge lettering was added prior to having the obverse and reverse struck.  In addition, the lettered edge halves were struck from 1836 and earlier by the use of manual and animal power to produce these coins.  A big difference in technology, that may be used as a standard for separation. 

Another point if someone wants to include both types in one reference book, it will involve getting approval from the Overton family to amend the book.  Jules Reiver published his reference "Variety Idenfication Manual for United States Reeded Edge Half Dollars 1836-1839"  in 1988.  I think that if the two references were to come together, it would of happened by now.  My two cents worth.

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Frank Goss wrote:

With respect to Rick Beale's thought that he had seen a compilation of Reeded Edge die varieties as a PDF on the Heritage web site some time ago, but can't find it now - I remember that PDF.  It was the "Variety Identification Manual for United States Reeded Edge Half Dollars 1836 - 1839 Copyright Jules Reiver 1988".  However it did not have the "Additional Reeded Edge Half Dollar" pages for the 10 additional varieties identified by about 1997.  Heritage had a link to the PDF file with each Reeded Edge Half in the sale of Jules Reiver's colllection, Heritage sales 390 and 391, January 2006, but their archives no longer show that link.  I think they continued providing that link with other reeded edge halves in later sales for a while.  In the introduction to the VIM, Jules states "This is a preliminary work, and will grow only with the help of the collectors.  New varieties will be added, and some existing ones may be dropped.  ... JR numbers refer to John Reich numbers.  Since the reeded edge half dollars are of the bust type, they are listed by the John Reich Society, even though they were engraved by Christian Gobrecht.  Any collectors of early silver coins should belong to the Society." and he gave the address of the Society at that time.  From my association with Jules, I believe he loved all early coins by variety, and did a great amount of research on them.  To identify 58 varieties and only have 10 more identified in the following 10 years speaks well for a "preliminary" work.  I look forward to Jim Matthews' update.

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John Morgan wrote:

My name is John M. Morgan from Fairmont WV and I have a complete set of the John Reich Journals, starting with Volume 1, No 1, which I'm interested in selling. They all are in excellent condition. If anyone is interested, please email me at nagrom4 (at) labyrinth.net

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Rich Uhrich wrote:

I don't know if you have seen this yet or not, but here is a thread about an unknown buyer obtaining an 1831 B-7 quarter in Fine or so for $1,613.

Here are two links:

The ebay auction:  ebay link to 1831 quarter

Discussion on the Collectors Universe Forums:  http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=806685

JR Newsletter: 13 February 2011 (23)

Jim Matthews wrote:

In response to Rick Beale and E. Padget's interest in the 1836-1839 Reeded Edge half dollars... 

I have Jules' notes on the series and have meet with a couple of collectors to discuss a possible update of his die variety guide. I would like to meet with anyone else who collect these coins by variety to put together an update on this reference. Jules was fascinated by this short lived series, in part because the Reeded Edge half dollars were utterly overlooked by most collectors. Many coins show interesting die cracks and evidence of clashing. As the dies for the Reeded Edge halves were hubbed the placement of stars and legends no longer varied, so identifying particular varieties involves finding unique characteristics to each die, sometimes small lumps, engravers marks and eventually clashing and cracks that are all used for identifying the individual die pairings.

 

Anyone who would be interested in comparing notes, updating new die varieties and rarity ratings is welcome to contact me and hopefully enough information will be forthcoming to produce an update to this pioneering work on the series. I can be reached at bustdollar (at) yahoo.com

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Brad Higgins wrote:

Below are two images from the New York Weekly Messenger and Young Men's Advocate dated Wednesday morning, August 28th, 1833. It appears that this snippet was lifted from the Saturday Evening Post.

 

What strikes me is that in the description, the writer describes how the planchets drop on a slide directly onto the die. No mention of a collar. This coincides with what Craig Sholley mentioned at the ANA forum on minting technology. Just thought the readers of the weekly list might enjoy this.

 

Editor's note:  Click on the images to enlarge them.

 

 

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Rick Beale wrote:

Who's handling the sale of the Bob Yuell collection ? Is it in auction ? Is there a catalog ?

 

Also:

Regarding David Lange's comments about adding Reeded Edge Halves to the Overton book:

Yes, I agree the differences between die varieties is minute for the reasons mentioned. I also agree that using die states to reckon die varieties is risky, and almost useless for early die state pieces. And yes, discerning individual dies requires finely detailed work, and the analogy with Bob Grellman's Late Date Large Cent work is appropriate.

However, that analogy also proves it can be done, as indicated by the success of Bob's Late Date book. Many other coins whose master dies were made from nearly complete hubs have die variety compilations, even coins as recent as Indian cents (with thanks to Rick Snow).

I thought I had seen a compilation of Reeded Edge die varieties as a PDF on the Heritage web site some time ago, but I can't find it now. If the scholarly research portion of the work has been done, it seems reasonable to update it and include it in the next version of the Bust Half reference.

Anything less seems unfair to a beautiful and wonderful series of coins, which heretofore have been neglected. They should have Overton numbers.

Respectfully submitted,

Ricky B

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Liz Coggan wrote:

We have one more Draped Bust Half Dime we are selling (details follow).

Thanks, Liz Coggan, J J Teaparty, Inc.

 

RARE 1800 DRAPED BUST HALF DIME LM-2 RARITY-7 CHOICE FINE CONDITION. 

TO BE OFFERED FOR BIDDING IN BALTIMORE, MD AT THE WHITMAN COIN AND COLLECTIBLES SHOW, MARCH 30-APRIL 2, 2011. THE COIN WILL BE SOLD VIA SEALED BID. THE AUCTION CLOSES AT 2:00 PM SATURDAY. PLEASE PLAN TO STOP BY OUR TABLE #508 TO SEE THE COIN IN PERSON

JR Newsletter: 6 February 2011 (22)

Raymond Hale wrote:

Thanks to my uncle, who gave me his Indian cent collection, I started collecting coins about 14 years ago. I quickly fell in love with Indian-Cent variety collecting. Then I decided to also build a type set. When I picked up my first Bust Half ( an highly-lustrous, prettily-toned, 1834 Lg date, Lg letter), I fell in love with its' design.

As a practicing historian, I strive to learn as much as I can about the history of our coinage.

When I started reading about Bust-half die varieties, I was hooked. I soon decided to assemble an over-date set. By this time, I was about a "4" on the "nut" scale. I started scouring every dealer site and auction listing I could find. Of course . . ..

 I just picked up an 1819 over 18, in a PCGS 50--it's a beautiful 50, too.

While I bought it as an over-date--the 4th of the 15--I was pleased to find that it is an O-103. (I thank my newly purchased Digital Rag for that.)

I am confused, though, about its' rarity rating: If I am quoting correctly, the Overton, 3rd ed. lists it as an R3; the 4th ed as an R4; the BHNC consensus--as quoted from Stephen Herrman is also R4: and, Stephen Herrman, in his auction listings, has it at R5.

Is this my first R5 cherry pick? I would certainly love that. I was practically giddy at finding it to be an R-5 variety. Thinking " now I know what it feels like!" I can't wait to find an R7!  And this is my first acquisition, since buying the RAG.

While not the most important issue, I would appreciate any information you might offer on this coin's rarity. Thanks for all the great reading! 

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From Jim (who sent a photo of a neat Seated Half earlier):

It just dawned on me this past week (better late than never?) that I had gotten two different newsletters mixed up recently and accidentally sent you that 1861 Seated Half photo, when your newsletter is obviously only for silver Bust coinage.

I do like the various Draped and Capped Bust series also although  I am not a variety collector. I'm attaching a pic. of one of my Draped Bust halves (a 1807 PCGS F-15) for your perusal this time. Feel free to post it in the JR Newsletter if you can use it for any reason.

 

Editor's Note:  Click on the images to enlarge them.

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Michael Spurlock wrote:

Fellow collectors--

I know a lot of you are not half cent collectors, but many of you may know Bob Yuell.  Bob has collected half cents since the 60's and has assembled a top-tier set over that time.  You can also tell by his EAC #218 that he is a long-time member of our club.

Many of Bob's coins are condition census level examples.  Bob has been known as a "picky" collector, thus his collection consists of choice material.

Even if you have no interest in the Little Half Sisters, it would be nice to wish Bob the best with his health conditions and with the sale of his collection.  It is a gut-wrenching decision to sell your precious copper "babies".

Happy copper hunting!

Mike Spurlock

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Richard Meaney wrote:

Those of you interested in capped bust half dimes may want to check out an item that Heritage sold in the Long Beach auction.  Lot number 7727 was an unattributed 1836 LM-1.1 in a PCGS MS-61 holder.  With buyer's premium, it sold for $4,887.50!  Anyone out there want to fess up to winning it?  To whomever that is adding it to his or her collection, congratulations!

I also had some good luck recently, just added this raw 1831 LM-3 to my collection:

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Brad Karoleff wrote:

The "Happenings" study coins for the EAC Convention will be as follows:

1831 LM1 half dime
1827 JR1 dime
1806 B5 and 6 quarter
1808 O110 and 1817 O105 half
1798 B14 dollar

JR Newsletter: 30 January 2011 (21)

This week's contributions are half dollar focused:

E Padget wrote (concerning Rick Beale's comments on Reeded Edge Half Dollar):

I couldn't agree more with Rick's comments about RE Halves being under-appreciated (other than for type) - it's like a whole series just dropped through the cracks, and I suppose the short series has a lot to do with it - but the real reason for my comment is: Back in the '80's when I maintained a somewhat exclusive mailing list, Jules was on it, and he bought probably a dozen of my REH's, several of which were in strange die varieties and even stranger die states - one I specifically remember was an 1838 with a reverse so badly cracked it was in 3 different planes (!).
My point is: Has Jules' work been salvaged, or even recognized? What happened to his notes? Has anyone else picked up the ball here - or has anyone else started over afresh? I think these are the 1st questions that need to be answered here....

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Dave Lange wrote:

Regarding Rick Beale's comments about adding Reeded Edge Halves to the Overton book, I don't believe that this would be successful. These coins were almost entirely hubbed, and the only variables seem to be date position and random flaws such as cracks in the dies. This is how Jules Reiver attributed them, but relying solely on die states to identify individual dies and marriages is risky. Distinguishing individual dies in this series would have to be performed in minute detail, as Reiver and Bob Grellman did with late date large cents. These, too, are extremely challenging to attribute in all but a few dozen instances where there are obvious repunchings or flaws that were present in the die as made. In grades below XF, most late date large cents become nearly unattributable, since the attribution features are either worn away or obscured by accumulated circulation debris.

NGC does receive a few Reeded Edge Halves for attribution, but these seem to come almost solely from submitters who don't understand the distinction between such coins and the earlier issues which featured numerous hand-punched design elements. I imagine that we would include this series for attribution service if it were properly documented in a future edition of Overton, but I don't expect this to happen.

Dave

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Dave Tryka wrote:

Thanks for the very enjoyable newletter!  I am still pretty much a novice at collecting bust half dollars, so I fear my contributions may be somewhat limited or elementary.  That said, one of my favorite dates of bust halves is 1809, for a variety of reasons (the least of which is the edge!), so I tend to gravitate to this date when at shows or looking through dealer inventory.  Recently I acquired a nice VF example of the O-103 marriage, this was my second example and it was struck about 10% off center.  My other example of this marriage, seems to have wider dentils on one side of the obverse than the other, but the reverse is well centered.  On this example, both sides are clearly off center (editor's note:  photos are below.  Click on the images to enlarge).  Can anyone lend any insights into this?  Is it rather common across the series, or are certain marriages or die states more prone to this sort of striking issue?

Thanks,

Jeff Tryka