JR Newsletter: 18 March 2012 (80)

Editor's note:  LOTS of information this week, please take your time and be sure to read all the way through to the end (especially if you collect early halves!)

Brad Karoleff wrote:

Last chance to make suggestions for coins to study at the upcoming EAC/JRCS convention! If there are no suggestions the decisions will be made by the officers. If you are going to be there please let us know what die marriages you want to study. Final decisions after the Baltimore JRCS meeting Friday afternoon. Please check the Whitman website for more information.

If you are coming to the show please bring a show-and-tell coin to share with the other members in attendance. We look forward to having a good crowd for our first Baltimore show meeting. Come one, come all and bring a friend!
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Tom Little wrote:

 PCGS apparently calls all "L" counterstamped Bust quarters "damaged";  only NGC will give those coins a numerical grade.  I will be getting the coin back from PCGS and will let the dealer know I bought it from what happened on the coin.  Plus PCGS called it a much lower grade level than I expected.

The "Browning 3" 1825 in the PCGS XF40 holder I sold at Great Collections for $1400.  Also I sold a number of bust dimes and some seated material.  They were all good for grade, purchased raw and PCGS graded.  Anyone who has interest I will share the images.

Regards,
Tom Little
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 Michael Sullivan wrote:

I would like to thank collector Pete Mosiondz, Jr., book dealer Bryce Brown, and early dollar enthusiast and researcher David Perkins for information on the HIGHLANDER COLLECTION.   

An auction catalog search, communication with collectors, and contact with PCGS had been under way.    David Perkins' effort to locate the HIGHLANDER Early Dollar registry set did provide a descriptive match with the 1795 BB-52 XF-40 in my collection.   Unfortunately, the registry set lacks photographs for the "definitive match", but I am very pleased and appreciative of the added insight on my collection.    I learned something new which is what makes this hobby so enjoyable.

If other collectors would like to add to this discussion, feel free to contact me at numisbookmjs (at) gmail.com.

 

Michael Sullivan

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David Quint wrote:

I want to pass along to other collectors that I have recently had a lot of success selling some of my bust dime duplicates on eBay (just sold a bunch over the past month). JRCS member Bill Hancock basically does this for me as I'm not interested myself in dealing with the eBay selling process (while this isn't an ad for him, I must say that he's done a terrific job on my dupe circulated early dimes). By setting the reserve levels low, we have found that there is tremendous interest in virtually any variety. For those of you who like the idea of selling to the highest bidder but don't want to deal directly with eBay buyers, the listing process, etc., the level of interest in early silver on eBay is really quite good in my opinion compared to just a few years ago, and there are people out there (like Bill) who can make the process pretty painless.

David Quint

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 Winston Zack wrote:

While the newest Bust Dime census compiled by David Quint was recently published in the Vol 21 / Issue 3, December 2011 issue of the John Reich Journal, I would like to add my comments on the (revised) rarity of several die marriages and create a discussion to further refine the rarities of several other die marriages.

After reading the census information a second time, it is understood that 16 die marriages (cited as "varieties" in the article) were nominated for rarity revision; I am assuming these were all of the Capped Bust design, at least this is how I infer it from the article.  Seven of these die marriages had their rarities revised since the last census (Vol. 19, Issue 3, March 2009).  Those include: 1809 JR-1, 1823 JR-1, 1824 JR-1, 1829 JR-8, 1829 JR-11, 1833 JR-4 and 1835 JR-7.

I have no immediate objections to these revised rarity ratings, although the 1824 JR-1 being changed from R3 to R2 was the most surprising.

I would like to add several other die marriages which I feel should be changed based upon my experience in the field (coin shows, eBay, structured auction appearances (e.g. Heritage, Bowers and Merena, Stacks-Bowers, etc)).  Undoubtedly some of the die marriages I will comment on likely overlap the remaining 9 die marriages up for nomination but subsequently not revised.

1823 JR-2 is almost certainly an R4+.  While a paltry 27 examples were reported in the most recent census, I have seen at least 6 examples appear on eBay in the last 8 months; I own 2 of those 6.  I also recently acquired a 3rd example (no, I'm not starting a hoard) as an upgrade.  At such a rate of discovery, I do not feel it is unreasonable to assume at least 70 examples of this die marriage exist.

1825 JR-5 is more likely an R5- than an R5.  Again, while a small quantity were reported in the most recent census (n = 29), this die marriage survives in unusually high grade relative to rarity.  While average surviving grade shouldn't correlate to rarity, in this case it should be expected that a relatively large quantity of this die marriage should exist in lower grades but were subsequently not reported, all things being equal.  This author owns two high grade examples - AU-55 and VF-35.

1827 JR-2 in my opinion is an R5- rather than R5+.  I do not make this exceptional jump in rarity lightly.  I have traced at least 6 or 7 raw examples of this die marriage on eBay in the past year.  For a die marriage with a presumed survival of 30-40 pieces (as an R5+), that is an exceptional quantity of observed examples, assuming none of those appearances were reported in this census.  I also feel that the discovery of the 1827 JR-14 die marriage is accentuating the search for Flat Topped 1's, and new examples of this die marriage are showing up at a more rapid pace.  Nevertheless a revision to R5 should have been implemented.

1829 JR-10.  Louis Scuderi can comment more definitively on this die marriage, but his input on this die marriages rarity should have been the only advice taken seriously for this die marriages true rarity.  His tracking of at least 35 examples in the Vol 21 / Issue 2 was not enough then to revise the rarity from R5+ to R5, but in light of additional specimens, a more accurate revision to R5 should be taken as absolute; I have acquired another previously unreported example of this die marriage since the most recent census was published!

1832 JR-3 in my opinion is an R3 and not an R4.  I personally own 3 examples which I acquired years ago in order to track die stage progression.  While I have declined to acquire several other low grade AG/G/VG specimens in order to upgrade the pieces I own, I have seen many examples of this die marriage at shows and on eBay.  This die marriage is fairly common.  Despite a reported quantity of 32 examples in this most recent census, it is not a die marriage which grabs a lot of attention in terms of value for its respective rarity.  I would like to hear what objections may be about revising this die marriages rarity from R4 to R3.

1833 JR-8 in my opinion is an R4+ and not an R5, or at the very least an R5-.  This is the more available of the 4 R5/R6 die marriages from 1833.  It survives, like the 1825 JR-5, in relatively high grade when compared to perceived rarity.  I have personally owned/own an AU-55 and VF-35; VF-35 being the average grade from the last census.  While I have not seen many of this die marriage at shows, it is just a gut feeling that the rarity of this die marriage is more realistically around R5-/R4+.

1837 JR-3.  While it's nice and convenient that the die marriages of 1837 consistently become more common as the JR numbers increase, from JR1 (R4) to JR4 (R1), it is my opinion that this die marriage should be considered an R1 and not an R2.  It is very is to spot by the bisecting die crack through the date.  I have seen too many of this die marriage to keep track of over the past year.  I own/have owner 3 examples in AU, and never seemed to have any difficulty acquiring this die marriage in high grade; that goes to say I more-or-less ignored lower grade examples.  One quick note, I've had a very difficult time (until recently) acquiring a nice example of the 1837 JR-4 which is considered an R1!  Does that make the JR-4 rarer than the JR-3?  I would be bold enough to say yes, that is quite possible.  I know a revision from R2 to R1 is not going to make headlines, nor should it be cared about as much as an R5 moving to R4, but for consistency I propose this revision!

 

I would like to know what other die marriages were up for consideration for revision.  I pondered discussing the R6 rarity of the 1820 JR-12 die marriage, but refrained for lack of more definitive evidence (other than that I now own 2 examples) to revise the rarity to R6-.

I should also note that my opinions here are mine alone, maybe with some exception from correspondence with Louis Scuderi about the 1829 JR-10.  Also, revising some of these rarer die marriages to become more common likely hurts the value of some of the examples in my collection.  But for the matter of the "greater good", and obtaining more accurate data on the rarity of these die marriages, I feel it must be considered.

In closing, I ask this very pertinent question, which likely affects a majority of collectors in the John Reich Collectors Society to some extent: How should we cite problem coins in the census?  Should we report a 'details grade', 'net grade' or 'give a consistent grade of "1"'?

 

I'm looking forward to added discussions on this topic.

Best,

Winston

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Robert Stark wrote:

 While looking forward to the next JRCS e-Letter several thoughts come to mind, almost simultaneously.
    * I appreciated Dave Perkins' notes in last week's e-Letter.

    * The 20 Year Journal Index is perhaps the most useful such Index I can recall. Brad's offer is too generous--The Index is worth much more than he's asking. The topical index has made past issues far more accessible.  I'm enjoying cycling back to some articles--and thinking of past issues--I have to seek a new owner for my complete set in new condition before very long, unfortunately.  A set at Kolbe's recently fetched $500 and they had still another buyer for a set.
    * Offers of early dollars seem scarce since the Hesselgesser Sale.  Also, I seem to see more offers of lower grade dollars, including many that are damaged, than I can recall from years past. One such, an 1800 B20, an R-6 and rarest of that year, was offered by Harry Laibstain last I looked at his website.
      *The new JRCS Index and recent articles on countermarks had me ponder whether any of those found on early dollars also appeared on lower denominations. Countermarks on early dollars were often those of silversmiths and gunsmiths.
      * Thinking of the Baltimore Show coming week, there is a JRCS meeting on Friday afternoon, if I recall. Unfortunately, at the moment it doesn't seem that I can make it--I would appreciate      having someone who attends to post some "minutes" in a following e-letter.
      * And, finally, putting Baltimore and countermarks together, a neat display might bring the famous Houck's Panacea countermark on half dollars and the frequent newspaper ads back to their Baltimore home.

All the best
Bob

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Chuck Allen wrote:

    In looking at some pics of a coin I was interested in buying, which I wondered if it was the elusive R.6 Lapped Die State O-116a, I looked at many detailed photos of O-116's ( for several hours ) and noticed a detail not mentioned in Overton, and thought it appropriate to mention it here for some discussion and possibly inclusion in future attribution information.

    

    The most noticeable detail not mentioned is a graver slip or die line protruding straight back off the outer top rear of the top arrow, specimens under VF20'ish seem to possibly depend on strike but anything above that (including details/ cleaned coins), there was no problem seeing the line.

Is it a graver slip (trying to touch up the arrow), or is it a die line?

    

   In comparing the 116 to the suspected 116a, the leaf /stem and berry stem connections were hard to see with the resolution of the pic and a straight on view so, I drew 2 lines, one from the tip of the olive stem to the a point where the arrow shaft and left "toe" of the right claw meet and notice that on the 116, the talon tip touches the line. When I drew the same reference line on the coin I thought was the 116a, the talon tip falls noticeably short of the line. As I thought on this, I concluded that if an impression in a die rises at an angle to the surface, and you removed some of the surface, the impression would be reduced in size in the die and show a reduced device on the struck planchet.

    I now have the coin and included better pics of berries and leaf detachment. BTW, the graver slip is gone , lapped away, and also on the obverse, only the slightest hint of only the deepest recutting point ( the one with the arrow in Dr.Glenn Peterson's "The Ultimate Guide To Attributing Bust Half Dollars" book picture # 712) is discernible at an angle with light just right on  S-12 on the obverse, which I understand was lapped also

    

    Thanks to Steve Herrman, Tom Palmer, and Dave Manevitz for looking at the pics and giving me their valued opinions.

     Any comments would be appreciated -- Chuck

 e-mail  DC44A (at) aol.com

editor's note:  clicking on these pictures will open up a much larger and more useful version of the same image.

  ------

Jim Matthews wrote:

Sorry I've been absent so long--too many weeks on the road and never enough time at home to catch up.

Important Capped Bust Dime collection coming up for auction at the ANA Auction, virtually complete by die marriage from 1809 through 1837 including many of the rarest varieties in high grades. Furthermore, a separate group of rare die marriages has been consigned to our June Auction in Baltimore, including a few Rarity-7 (1827 JR-10 dime) and several Rarity-6 die marriages from cents to half dollars. More on these important collections to follow as the coins are reviewed and cataloged.

I have not found anything new in half dime or dime cud department, but Winston seems to be on top of that lately!

Jim

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David Kahn wrote:

 

Although I must apologize for such late notice, I am very pleased to announce that I will be offering the complete, 563-piece Bust Half dollar collection formed by Hall Arnold of Charlotte, NC at this week’s Baltimore Coin Expo.

The coins will be net priced and ready for sale at 10AM on Friday morning – yes folks, that’s THIS Friday morning – March 23^rd, at table #1600.  The coins will not be out in the cases until Friday morning, so please do not try to get a head start on Thursday. 

There should be something of interest for virtually any collector.  Among the 563 coins are examples of virtually all dates from 1795 through 1836.  Well over 1/3 of the coins are slabbed, including 59 that are freshly back from PCGS within the past week.  Grades run from Good thru AU-58, and many significant and affordable Overton rarities are included.

Please do not hesitate to contact me by email or phone, and I will be happy to provide more information and answer whatever questions you may have.  If you will not be in Baltimore, please try to make arrangements with another collector or dealer who can view coins for you and help you make any purchase decisions. 

I look forward to seeing many of you on Friday morning.

David  Kahn

David Kahn Rare Coins

POB 1637

Olney, MD  20830-1637

www.DavidKahnRareCoins.com

David (at) DavidKahnRareCoins.com

(301) 570-7070

JR Newsletter: 11 March 2012 (79)

Tom Little wrote:

Thanks for the update and information.  I will review the pictures provided.   The 25/3 "L" counterstamped Bust quarter I mentioned earlier, I purchased finally from the dealer yesterday for $1000. It looks to be XF with less wear than the other I bought from the same dealer and had certified at PCGS.   One question:  Is it best that I pay PCGS to attribute the counterstamped coin for market purposes? 

Thanks,

Tom

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W. David Perkins wrote in response to Michael Sullivan's question about the Highlander Collection:

I recall seeing early dollars from the Highlander collection over a period
of years.  The Highlander early dollar collection was listed as a PCGS
Registry Set at one time.  If you click on the following link you will get a
listing of the Highlander early dollar collection PCGS Registry Set:

http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset.aspx?s=475&ac=1

From this listing the Highlander early dollar collection appears to have
been what I would term a "Date and Major Type Collection of Early Dollars
1795-1803" 

The following is a description of the set as it appears on the PCGS Registry
web site:
"About this set: Americana at its finest! The Highlander Early Dollar set
consists of original examples in the Very Fine to Extremely Fine category.
However, one example grades Fine and two examples are almost uncirculated.
An early dollar with a smooth planchet, solid details, original patina, and
minimal circulation marks is a historical treasure to behold. Some specimens
are pedigreed and emanate from the Amon Carter, Benson, Cardinal, Clapp,
Eliasberg, Flannagan, Hering and Ostheimer cabinets. The Highlander Early
Dollar set holds the first 1800 Wide Date Low 8 obverse with AMERICAI
reverse, 1798 Large Eagle 5-Stripes, and 1800 10-Arrows certified by PCGS"

A lovely 1798 B-3, BB-94 Dollar, ex. Amon Carter, Jr. Collection sale and
Highlander Collection resides in my collection today.  I did not acquire
this specimen directly from the owner of the Highlander Collection and I
don't know exactly when this collection was dispersed.

Based on the pedigrees noted above, the sale of the collection had to take
place after 2002.  I don't know if the early dollars were all sold at the
same time, or over a period of months/years.  I suspect the latter.  I
asked an early dollar collector friend who was active at the time if he knew
when and how the early dollars were sold.  He replied, "I thought the
dollars were almost all sold to dealers and collectors at shows.  I know
they sold a different denomination collection or two via auction houses." 

So the answer is the Highlander Collection of early dollars was not sold via
public auction and it appears that the early dollars were likely dispersed
over a period of time to different dealers and collectors at a number of
different Conventions/Shows. If I had to venture a guess the early dollar
collection was dispersed in or around 2004-2008. 

W. David Perkins
Centennial, CO

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David Perkins also wrote about the E and L Bust Quarters:

There has been some discussion in JR Newsletter over the last few weeks on the E and L Counterstamped 1815 and 1825 Capped Bust Quarter Dollars.

All current JRCS Members should now have the new index to the first twenty volumes of the John Reich Journal which was compiled by Stephen J. Herrman.   For those JR Newsletter readers who are not members of JRCS and do not have a copy of the index I have pasted below a list of all articles about the E & L Countermarks that have appeared in the first 20 volumes of the Journal (1986-2010).  As you can see the E & L countermarks have been a popular topic over the years!

On behalf of all JRCS members and the JRCS Board of Directors I'd like to again thank Steve for all of the hard work and hours he put into compiling this index.  Thanks Steve!

SUBJECT INDEX ___________________________________________________________________

QUARTERS : CAPPED BUST – Countermarks

6:26 Mint Counterstamped Large Size Bust Quarters 1815 & 1825                           Hotz, Mark B.

6:31 “E” & “L” Counterstamps - Another Theory, The                                                Subjack, Bill

7:34 “E” and “L” Counterstamps - Yet Another Theory                                              Cooper, Hugh

13:22 Those Darned Counterstamped Bust Quarters – The Saga Continues            Hotz, Mark B.

16:33 Counterstamped Bust Quarters: Factual and Not-Quite-Factual             Blackwelder, Larry

17:17 Damn Those Counterstamped Bust Quarters (Part III in the Continuing Saga)    Hotz, Mark B.

47:4 Enigmatic “E” and “L” Countermarked Quarters of 1815 & 1825, The: A New Hypothesis Regarding Their Origin, Purpose and Historical Context (Part I)                McAuley, Ted

47:23 Enigmatic “E” and “L” Countermarked Quarters of 1815 & 1825, The:  A New Hypothesis Regarding Their Origin, Purpose and Historical Context (Part II)        McAuley, Ted

49:3 E and L Counterstamps: The Questions Continue                                    Karoleff, Bradley S.

51:5 E and L Counterstamps; The Questions Continue                                    Karoleff, Bradley S.

W. David Perkins

Centennial, CO

JR Newsletter: 4 March 2012 (78)

Louis Scuderi wrote in response to Tom Little's inquiry about countermarked quarters:

I don't know if anyone has been tracking the different counterstamps and has been keeping tabs on the prices. I have images of quite a few, primarily 1815 E's and 1825 L's which is in line with the relative rarity of the counterstamps. I have found the 15 L and 25 E to be the hardest to find with less than 20% of 1815's being 1815 L and closer to 10% of 1825's being 1825 E. I think Steve's book has similar relative percentages. I've personally seen fewer sales of the 1825 E's. I finally completed my set (I also have a duplicate 1815 E) last year. They are all out there for the finding but as far as a estimate of survivors there could be a total of few hundred of all of them. I see enough (including duplicate sales of the same coin) to consider them to be in the low R4 range for the common ones (15E, 25L) and mid-R5 for the uncommon stamps (15L, 25E). Of the common ones 15E in my opinion is easier than the 25L.

If anyone wants to see more counterstamp photos I've included mine (images below). They are also on Coinzip.

While high grade examples are the most often found, as can be seen from some of my images they can be also be found well worn. The lowest grade I have seen is a G4 1815 E. Highest grade is an 1815 E in MS65 (not slabbed). Many of the counterstamped coins have been cleaned, but that seems to be the norm for large sized bust quarters.

Louis

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Tom Little wrote:

Thanks for the information.  I sent in my JRCS membership application.  I have one of the Bust Quarters in the Great Collections auction this week.  Here is the link to the auction: https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/40657/182542-Capped-Bust-Quarter-Browning-3-PCGS-XF-40 .  That one is the 1826/4/2, a "Browning 3", graded XF40.  I also have some bust dimes in the auction.  I like Great Collections for their low commissions and excellent imaging.  They also pay faster than the other auctions.

Tom

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Pete Mosiondz, Jr. wrote in response to a question about a "Highlander" collection:

I could not find a reference to a "Highlander Collection" in my files but I
did come across the Alex Highland Collection sold at the Heritage Numismatic
Auctions, Inc.'s "Long Beach Signature Sale", May 31-June 2, 2001.
Unfortunately I do not have a copy of the catalog. Perhaps a newsletter
member who has a copy could take a look to see if it contained the 1795
dollar BB-52, XF-40 (PCGS). My notes indicate that the sale contained many
exemplary coins.

Pete Mosiondz, Jr.

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Nathan Markowitz wrote:

I am pleased announce the schedule for the 2012 Educational Forums for Buffalo, NY. Please support your fellow numismatists by attending these sessions on Friday and Saturday.  Prior attendees will note that we will not have a Friday evening program this year...instead attendees will be free to enjoy the local community after a musical sendoff of eighteenth century music by local historian Ron Cary.  See you there!

Buffalo 2012 EAC Educational Program

Friday May 4, 2012

Noon:  Mark Borckardt:  “When Was the War of 1812?”

1PM:   Greg Heim:  “The Reality of Die Variety/Marriage Attribution”

2PM;   Howard Spencer Pitkow:  “My Sojourn in China and Hong Kong---Acquiring           Counterfeit US Copper Large Cents”

3PM:   Bill Eckberg:  “Men at Work: The Mint in 1793”

4PM:   Steve Carr:  “Misaligned Die Large Cents”

5:30PM  Ronald Cary:  “18^th Century Tavern Music of the Niagara Frontier”

                                       Music presentation with cash bar

Saturday, May 5, 2012

Noon:  Franklin Noel:  “Coinage, Sovereignty, and The Birth of The Republic”

1PM:   John Kraljevich:  “Money and Medals of Early Upstate New York”

2PM:   Chuck Heck:  “The Buffalo Copper Connection”

3PM:   Mark Borckardt:  “Who Am I?:  An Interactive Numismatic Seminar”

4PM:   Pete Smith:  “The Starred Reverse Cent and 1792 Half Dime:  Conducting Pedigree Research with Current Resources”

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Alan V. Weinberg wrote: 

There is a superb Mint state white metal John Reich -signed and designed  1801 Thom Jefferson inaugural medal in Princeton University's numismatic collection which is on exhibit at the college and viewable enlarged on  the numismatic exhibit website set up by Princeton curator Alan Stahl (formerly of the ANS). In white metal in this superb condition, it is actually rarer than the silver specimens. Go to rbsc.princeton.edu/capping-liberty

(Editor's Note:  After clicking on the link, use the "Exhibition Cases" links in the orange-colored box on the left side of the page to view some wonderful material)

Alan V. Weinberg

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From Brad Karoleff, via E-Sylum (the electronic publication of the Numismatic Bibliomania Society):

We will sell the JR Journal Index to volumes 1-20 to non-members for $15 delivered which may be credited towards membership of $25/year if they join.  The index can be ordered from me at bkaroleff (at) yahoo.com or by mail at JRCS C/O Brad Karoleff 225 E 6th St. suite 1 Cincinnati, OH 45202.

JR Newsletter: 26 February 2012 (77)

Michael J. Sullivan wrote:

Here is a question for our newsletter members:    Which auction house sold the HIGHLANDER COLLECTION?    What was the date of the sale?

I own a wonderful 1795 dollar BB-52, XF-40 (PCSG) dollar from the sale.  The coin is lustrous and fully original.   It is scare early die state for the variety between the Bowers-Borckardt die states I - II.

Thanks in advance to our members for the answer to the auction sale question.

Michael J. Sullivan

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Brad Karoleff wrote:

Today, I shipped the index to John Reich Journal volumes one through twenty.  If a current, paid member of the JRCS does not receive a copy by March 3^rd, please email me at bkaroleff (at) yahoo.com.  The index was not funded by dues payments, instead it was paid for by fundraisers and donations. 

Thanks,

Brad

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Richard Meaney wrote, in response to the inquiry about counterstamped bust quarters:

I am far from expert on bust quarters, but I can recommend two excellent sources of information on the E and L countermarks found on bust quarters.  Here they are:

-"Early United States Quarters 1796-1838" by Steve M. Tompkins.  See especially pages 351-357.

-"Early Quarter Dollars of the United States Mint 1796-1838" by Rory R. Rea, Dr. Glenn Peterson, Bradley S. Karoleff, and John J. Kovach, Jr.  See especially pages 325-330.

I do hope Tom can provide us with a picture or two of his coin once it comes back from PCGS!

Richard

JR Newsletter: 19 February 2012 (76)

Wes Chormicle wrote about a new website he just put online:

I’ve started a new website dedicated to Capped Bust Half Dimes at the following web address: 

http://www.everythinghalfdimes.com/index.html  

I have quite a ways to go, but thought you might want to take a peek and let me know what you think and what you might add.

Thanks,
Wes Chormicle

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Tom Little wrote about an "L Counterstamped" Bust Quarter:

I have an early Bust Quarter that PCGS has just certified; an 1825/4/(2) with an L counterstamp, graded XF40; Browing 3.  PCGS did not take a photo and I don't have the coin back from PCGS just yet.  The certification number is 24576786

  

Do you have any additional information on this particular variety and counterstamp, its price value, best venue to sell, etc.?  PCGS lists the variety as over $4K in its price guide. There is a thread at Coin Talk on the subject:

http://www.cointalk.com/t199989-2/#post1374322

I can also be reached at 203-966-2255

Regards,

Tom

JR Newsletter: 12 February 2012 (75)

(editor's note:  click on any image to open a larger version of that image)

Brad Karoleff wrote:

Please remember that the Bust Quarter census will be included in the Spring issue of The John Reich Journal.  If you have not yet forwarded your census information to Glenn Peterson, please do it NOW to be included in the census.  You can send Glenn your information at gpeters (at) tds.net or hard copies should be sent to Glenn Peterson, 9301 Park West Blvd, Knoxville, TN 37923.

We still need volunteers for manning the tables at the EAC/JRCS convention.  This is a wonderful opportunity to meet fellow collectors and see many neat coins!  Please let me know if you can help at bkaroleff (at) yahoo.com.

The membership will be receiving a copy of the complete index of the John Reich Journal soon.  We are proofing the final copy as you read this and expect it to be in the mail near the end of Feb or the beginning of March.  This will be provided to the membership at no additional cost as many members have donated money or auction lots to raise the money for the issue. 

The Spring issue of the journal will follow soon thereafter.  We can still use a couple of articles or letters to the editor for inclusion in the issue.  We also would like to have some remembrances of David Davis to include in the issue.  Please send them to me at bkaroleff (at) yahoo.com or Brad Karoleff C/O Coins +, 225 E 6th St., suite 1, Cincinnati, OH 45202.  Thank you.

We also need to determine the cover coin for the next volume of the journal.  If anyone has a great photo of a great coin for consideration you can contact me via email for more information.

Remember, EAC/JRCS is sneaking up on us.  Make your plans to attend NOW!

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Winston Zack wrote:

While I sent Van an email of the image of the 1834 JR-4 Capped Bust Dime with a reverse Cud over UN(IT)ED, I think the rest of the JR Newsletter recipients would like to see it so they may be able to come across (cherrypick) one in their future searches.

Jim Matthews sent me some additional information regarding the rarity of the 1825 JR-4 Retained Cud and it is both of our understandings that the population of this die state is around, if not more than 5 pieces extant.  I further informed him that the die did not fail suddenly without first exhibiting signs of die cracking, which he assumed.  The first 1825 JR-4 I picked up (about 3 years ago) shows early signs of die failure with cracking at stars 8-11. The image I'm providing was taken with my digital-camera-microscope.  I still believe this die state is very rare as well, but I could be wrong.  If anyone else has an example which shows these die cracks, or a die state slightly more advanced than what I am sharing please feel free to share photo's if you have any.  (This die crack specimen is a VG-8 coin).

Images are below:

Keep Hunting,

Winston

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David Quint wrote:

With regard to the EAC/JRCS show, I'd like to put it out there that my guess is that many who want to attend these meetings can not. Perhaps one of the attendees would be willing to bring a laptop and stream the thing live on the internet? Easy for me to say since I'm never there, but perhaps one of those who is planning to be in Buffalo would be willing to do this (that is, if it indeed is the case that there are many more like me who won't be in Buffalo that weekend but would like to participate or listen in on the meeting or presentations)...

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Alan Weinberg wrote in response to an inquiry last week by Dick Kurtz:

The copy of the Birch cent is likely the product of the Gallery Mint. They come full blazing red and prooflike and can be acquired at the ANA or Baltimore bourses from one single dealer who specializes in them and other Gallery mint issues. I have to admit they are very attractive and closely resemble the original. It would be interesting to carry one in pocket change for a year til it is worn to say VF and is brown.

The Birch cent has eluded me for 4 decades. I have all the other "collectible" 1792 patterns in choice condition but the Birch cent. There cannot be but 4 or 5  genuine Birch cents of both types in decent collectible condition (Very Good or better). The best one is the mint red specimen sold in Garrett and going directly into the DGP Long Island collection. The last "decent" one (VF) was in Norweb 1988 and is now in the Smithsonian.

Even superbly made electrotypes are super-rare, the few around have gaping lead exposure on their surfaces. I do own the ex-Maurice Gould Birch cent electrotype which is Uncirculated and exhibits no underlying lead even under a good glass. Guess I'll have to die with that.

Alan V. Weinberg

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Larry Schmidt wrote:

Like Dave Wnuck I too enjoy collecting early US contemporary counterfeits. From experience gained in collecting these types of coins there are a few points to consider in the study of this 1811 Half Eagle counterfeit:

• Contemporary counterfeiters would have wanted their coins to been accepted into general circulation with as little attention brought to them as possible.  As a comparison this is certainly true for the vast majority of known contemporary counterfeit Capped Bust Halves, a widely counterfeited coin of the same era.  Identified with nearly 350 varieties in Keith Davignon's book Contemporary Counterfeit Capped Bust Halves - Second Edition and a complementing website ccCBHcc.com, these contemporary counterfeits attempted to look like genuine US Mint coinage with appropriately matched obverses and reverses.  (Yes, there are varieties with the wrong number of stars and very crude folk art like images, but these are the exceptions.)  
• Perhaps this counterfeit was intentionally struck to give the appearance of a worn state as was known to have been intentionally done by 19th century contemporary counterfeiters and continues to today with newly minted supplies of early US coinage fakes.
• Could this 1811 Half Eagle be a more recent counterfeit?  It is known that quite unbelievable obverse and reverse counterfeit marriages seemed to have proliferated with foreign minted fakes displaying ignorance of early US coinage (e.g. please see examples of an 1807 dime and an 1809 dime in the below images from my own collection).  

Hope these perspectives help in the study of this very interesting specimen!

Larry Schmidt

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Van Walworth wrote:

Hey Bust Dime guys...

I have this 1836 JR-1 Bust Dime that is in decent condition.  Photos are attached.  The interesting thing about this particular example is that when observing the strike on the obverse, it could be considered slightly off-center as many of the coins of the era often are... and the off-center strike is somewhat evident by the missing denticles above Stars S4-S5-S6-S7 while the rest of the denticles are quite well formed.

On the reverse is a different story... in this case there are NO denticles and there does not seem to be any off-center strike evidence.  It would appear to me that the forming process of the denticles was "missed" for this coin?  I must admit my lack of knowledge for the actual minting sequence and do not have a very clear understanding of the process flow of the forming of the denticles on the obverse and reverse of the coins.  I am hoping that someone in the group with considerable knowledge can shed some light on this coin as to why it looks like it does.

I look forward to hearing from the sages in the group...

Here are the images:

Van Walworth

JRCS #1300

JR Newsletter: 5 February 2012 (74)

Dave Wnuck wrote about a Possible Hybrid Between a Half Eagle and a Bust Quarter on an 1811 Contemporary Counterfeit 1811 $5:

Hi JRCS Members:

 

I have an intriguing contemporary counterfeit 1811 $5 gold coin in my collection.  I have had it for a while, but I have never seen another specimen in my 20+ years of collecting contemporary counterfeits. 

 

So – I thought I would ask the question of the membership: Does anyone else have an example of this?

 

The most interesting aspect of this item is: the design seems to be a hybrid between an 1811 $5 and a Bust Quarter of the 1815-28 type.  Most obvious is the eagle on the reverse.  The eagle’s wingtips point downward on both this specimen and on bust quarters, but the wingtips point toward the sky on genuine half eagles of the period.  Yet the denomination of “5 D.” and the gold wash still clinging to the specimen clearly show what denomination the counterfeiter was aiming for.

 

Here are the specs on this coin:

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1811 contemporary counterfeit US Half Eagle.

Struck in copper with crude false dies.  Gold washed, with traces of gold still visible.

6.11 grams (compared with 8.75 grams for a genuine specimen)

26.5 mm diameter (compared with 25 mm for a genuine specimen)

Reeded edge.

Rings like a bell.

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I would be interested to hear any and all thoughts and observations on this “coin”.

 

Sincerely,

Dave Wnuck 

Editor's note:  Click on the image below to view a larger version of Dave's coin:

 

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Dick Kurtz wrote:

I was fortunate to win a copy (so marked on the reverse) of a Birch Cent at the JRCS meeting at the January 2012 FUN show. Does anyone who attended that meeting know who made it? Copy or not, it's a neat piece to own.

Dick Kurtz #049

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Van Walworth wrote:

I read with interest Winston's report of his 1825 JR-4 obverse cud find... and would love to see a photo of the 1834 JR-4 reverse full cud example he discovered... Thx... Van

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Nathan Markowitz wrote about the upcoming EAC-JRCS meeting in Buffalo, NY:

This is the LAST CALL for anyone who wishes to share their enthusiasm and knowledge about early federal silver with fellow collectors of both the silver and copper type at the May 3-6 EAC/JRCS show.  The talks will be given Friday May 5 and Saturday May 6.  If you plan to attend please consider sharing your passion for early silver with like-minded collectors. I can be reached at cascades1787 (at) yahoo.com