JR Newsletter: 11 March 2012 (79)

Tom Little wrote:

Thanks for the update and information.  I will review the pictures provided.   The 25/3 "L" counterstamped Bust quarter I mentioned earlier, I purchased finally from the dealer yesterday for $1000. It looks to be XF with less wear than the other I bought from the same dealer and had certified at PCGS.   One question:  Is it best that I pay PCGS to attribute the counterstamped coin for market purposes? 

Thanks,

Tom

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W. David Perkins wrote in response to Michael Sullivan's question about the Highlander Collection:

I recall seeing early dollars from the Highlander collection over a period
of years.  The Highlander early dollar collection was listed as a PCGS
Registry Set at one time.  If you click on the following link you will get a
listing of the Highlander early dollar collection PCGS Registry Set:

http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset.aspx?s=475&ac=1

From this listing the Highlander early dollar collection appears to have
been what I would term a "Date and Major Type Collection of Early Dollars
1795-1803" 

The following is a description of the set as it appears on the PCGS Registry
web site:
"About this set: Americana at its finest! The Highlander Early Dollar set
consists of original examples in the Very Fine to Extremely Fine category.
However, one example grades Fine and two examples are almost uncirculated.
An early dollar with a smooth planchet, solid details, original patina, and
minimal circulation marks is a historical treasure to behold. Some specimens
are pedigreed and emanate from the Amon Carter, Benson, Cardinal, Clapp,
Eliasberg, Flannagan, Hering and Ostheimer cabinets. The Highlander Early
Dollar set holds the first 1800 Wide Date Low 8 obverse with AMERICAI
reverse, 1798 Large Eagle 5-Stripes, and 1800 10-Arrows certified by PCGS"

A lovely 1798 B-3, BB-94 Dollar, ex. Amon Carter, Jr. Collection sale and
Highlander Collection resides in my collection today.  I did not acquire
this specimen directly from the owner of the Highlander Collection and I
don't know exactly when this collection was dispersed.

Based on the pedigrees noted above, the sale of the collection had to take
place after 2002.  I don't know if the early dollars were all sold at the
same time, or over a period of months/years.  I suspect the latter.  I
asked an early dollar collector friend who was active at the time if he knew
when and how the early dollars were sold.  He replied, "I thought the
dollars were almost all sold to dealers and collectors at shows.  I know
they sold a different denomination collection or two via auction houses." 

So the answer is the Highlander Collection of early dollars was not sold via
public auction and it appears that the early dollars were likely dispersed
over a period of time to different dealers and collectors at a number of
different Conventions/Shows. If I had to venture a guess the early dollar
collection was dispersed in or around 2004-2008. 

W. David Perkins
Centennial, CO

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David Perkins also wrote about the E and L Bust Quarters:

There has been some discussion in JR Newsletter over the last few weeks on the E and L Counterstamped 1815 and 1825 Capped Bust Quarter Dollars.

All current JRCS Members should now have the new index to the first twenty volumes of the John Reich Journal which was compiled by Stephen J. Herrman.   For those JR Newsletter readers who are not members of JRCS and do not have a copy of the index I have pasted below a list of all articles about the E & L Countermarks that have appeared in the first 20 volumes of the Journal (1986-2010).  As you can see the E & L countermarks have been a popular topic over the years!

On behalf of all JRCS members and the JRCS Board of Directors I'd like to again thank Steve for all of the hard work and hours he put into compiling this index.  Thanks Steve!

SUBJECT INDEX ___________________________________________________________________

QUARTERS : CAPPED BUST – Countermarks

6:26 Mint Counterstamped Large Size Bust Quarters 1815 & 1825                           Hotz, Mark B.

6:31 “E” & “L” Counterstamps - Another Theory, The                                                Subjack, Bill

7:34 “E” and “L” Counterstamps - Yet Another Theory                                              Cooper, Hugh

13:22 Those Darned Counterstamped Bust Quarters – The Saga Continues            Hotz, Mark B.

16:33 Counterstamped Bust Quarters: Factual and Not-Quite-Factual             Blackwelder, Larry

17:17 Damn Those Counterstamped Bust Quarters (Part III in the Continuing Saga)    Hotz, Mark B.

47:4 Enigmatic “E” and “L” Countermarked Quarters of 1815 & 1825, The: A New Hypothesis Regarding Their Origin, Purpose and Historical Context (Part I)                McAuley, Ted

47:23 Enigmatic “E” and “L” Countermarked Quarters of 1815 & 1825, The:  A New Hypothesis Regarding Their Origin, Purpose and Historical Context (Part II)        McAuley, Ted

49:3 E and L Counterstamps: The Questions Continue                                    Karoleff, Bradley S.

51:5 E and L Counterstamps; The Questions Continue                                    Karoleff, Bradley S.

W. David Perkins

Centennial, CO

JR Newsletter: 4 March 2012 (78)

Louis Scuderi wrote in response to Tom Little's inquiry about countermarked quarters:

I don't know if anyone has been tracking the different counterstamps and has been keeping tabs on the prices. I have images of quite a few, primarily 1815 E's and 1825 L's which is in line with the relative rarity of the counterstamps. I have found the 15 L and 25 E to be the hardest to find with less than 20% of 1815's being 1815 L and closer to 10% of 1825's being 1825 E. I think Steve's book has similar relative percentages. I've personally seen fewer sales of the 1825 E's. I finally completed my set (I also have a duplicate 1815 E) last year. They are all out there for the finding but as far as a estimate of survivors there could be a total of few hundred of all of them. I see enough (including duplicate sales of the same coin) to consider them to be in the low R4 range for the common ones (15E, 25L) and mid-R5 for the uncommon stamps (15L, 25E). Of the common ones 15E in my opinion is easier than the 25L.

If anyone wants to see more counterstamp photos I've included mine (images below). They are also on Coinzip.

While high grade examples are the most often found, as can be seen from some of my images they can be also be found well worn. The lowest grade I have seen is a G4 1815 E. Highest grade is an 1815 E in MS65 (not slabbed). Many of the counterstamped coins have been cleaned, but that seems to be the norm for large sized bust quarters.

Louis

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Tom Little wrote:

Thanks for the information.  I sent in my JRCS membership application.  I have one of the Bust Quarters in the Great Collections auction this week.  Here is the link to the auction: https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/40657/182542-Capped-Bust-Quarter-Browning-3-PCGS-XF-40 .  That one is the 1826/4/2, a "Browning 3", graded XF40.  I also have some bust dimes in the auction.  I like Great Collections for their low commissions and excellent imaging.  They also pay faster than the other auctions.

Tom

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Pete Mosiondz, Jr. wrote in response to a question about a "Highlander" collection:

I could not find a reference to a "Highlander Collection" in my files but I
did come across the Alex Highland Collection sold at the Heritage Numismatic
Auctions, Inc.'s "Long Beach Signature Sale", May 31-June 2, 2001.
Unfortunately I do not have a copy of the catalog. Perhaps a newsletter
member who has a copy could take a look to see if it contained the 1795
dollar BB-52, XF-40 (PCGS). My notes indicate that the sale contained many
exemplary coins.

Pete Mosiondz, Jr.

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Nathan Markowitz wrote:

I am pleased announce the schedule for the 2012 Educational Forums for Buffalo, NY. Please support your fellow numismatists by attending these sessions on Friday and Saturday.  Prior attendees will note that we will not have a Friday evening program this year...instead attendees will be free to enjoy the local community after a musical sendoff of eighteenth century music by local historian Ron Cary.  See you there!

Buffalo 2012 EAC Educational Program

Friday May 4, 2012

Noon:  Mark Borckardt:  “When Was the War of 1812?”

1PM:   Greg Heim:  “The Reality of Die Variety/Marriage Attribution”

2PM;   Howard Spencer Pitkow:  “My Sojourn in China and Hong Kong---Acquiring           Counterfeit US Copper Large Cents”

3PM:   Bill Eckberg:  “Men at Work: The Mint in 1793”

4PM:   Steve Carr:  “Misaligned Die Large Cents”

5:30PM  Ronald Cary:  “18^th Century Tavern Music of the Niagara Frontier”

                                       Music presentation with cash bar

Saturday, May 5, 2012

Noon:  Franklin Noel:  “Coinage, Sovereignty, and The Birth of The Republic”

1PM:   John Kraljevich:  “Money and Medals of Early Upstate New York”

2PM:   Chuck Heck:  “The Buffalo Copper Connection”

3PM:   Mark Borckardt:  “Who Am I?:  An Interactive Numismatic Seminar”

4PM:   Pete Smith:  “The Starred Reverse Cent and 1792 Half Dime:  Conducting Pedigree Research with Current Resources”

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Alan V. Weinberg wrote: 

There is a superb Mint state white metal John Reich -signed and designed  1801 Thom Jefferson inaugural medal in Princeton University's numismatic collection which is on exhibit at the college and viewable enlarged on  the numismatic exhibit website set up by Princeton curator Alan Stahl (formerly of the ANS). In white metal in this superb condition, it is actually rarer than the silver specimens. Go to rbsc.princeton.edu/capping-liberty

(Editor's Note:  After clicking on the link, use the "Exhibition Cases" links in the orange-colored box on the left side of the page to view some wonderful material)

Alan V. Weinberg

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From Brad Karoleff, via E-Sylum (the electronic publication of the Numismatic Bibliomania Society):

We will sell the JR Journal Index to volumes 1-20 to non-members for $15 delivered which may be credited towards membership of $25/year if they join.  The index can be ordered from me at bkaroleff (at) yahoo.com or by mail at JRCS C/O Brad Karoleff 225 E 6th St. suite 1 Cincinnati, OH 45202.

JR Newsletter: 26 February 2012 (77)

Michael J. Sullivan wrote:

Here is a question for our newsletter members:    Which auction house sold the HIGHLANDER COLLECTION?    What was the date of the sale?

I own a wonderful 1795 dollar BB-52, XF-40 (PCSG) dollar from the sale.  The coin is lustrous and fully original.   It is scare early die state for the variety between the Bowers-Borckardt die states I - II.

Thanks in advance to our members for the answer to the auction sale question.

Michael J. Sullivan

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Brad Karoleff wrote:

Today, I shipped the index to John Reich Journal volumes one through twenty.  If a current, paid member of the JRCS does not receive a copy by March 3^rd, please email me at bkaroleff (at) yahoo.com.  The index was not funded by dues payments, instead it was paid for by fundraisers and donations. 

Thanks,

Brad

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Richard Meaney wrote, in response to the inquiry about counterstamped bust quarters:

I am far from expert on bust quarters, but I can recommend two excellent sources of information on the E and L countermarks found on bust quarters.  Here they are:

-"Early United States Quarters 1796-1838" by Steve M. Tompkins.  See especially pages 351-357.

-"Early Quarter Dollars of the United States Mint 1796-1838" by Rory R. Rea, Dr. Glenn Peterson, Bradley S. Karoleff, and John J. Kovach, Jr.  See especially pages 325-330.

I do hope Tom can provide us with a picture or two of his coin once it comes back from PCGS!

Richard

JR Newsletter: 19 February 2012 (76)

Wes Chormicle wrote about a new website he just put online:

I’ve started a new website dedicated to Capped Bust Half Dimes at the following web address: 

http://www.everythinghalfdimes.com/index.html  

I have quite a ways to go, but thought you might want to take a peek and let me know what you think and what you might add.

Thanks,
Wes Chormicle

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Tom Little wrote about an "L Counterstamped" Bust Quarter:

I have an early Bust Quarter that PCGS has just certified; an 1825/4/(2) with an L counterstamp, graded XF40; Browing 3.  PCGS did not take a photo and I don't have the coin back from PCGS just yet.  The certification number is 24576786

  

Do you have any additional information on this particular variety and counterstamp, its price value, best venue to sell, etc.?  PCGS lists the variety as over $4K in its price guide. There is a thread at Coin Talk on the subject:

http://www.cointalk.com/t199989-2/#post1374322

I can also be reached at 203-966-2255

Regards,

Tom

JR Newsletter: 12 February 2012 (75)

(editor's note:  click on any image to open a larger version of that image)

Brad Karoleff wrote:

Please remember that the Bust Quarter census will be included in the Spring issue of The John Reich Journal.  If you have not yet forwarded your census information to Glenn Peterson, please do it NOW to be included in the census.  You can send Glenn your information at gpeters (at) tds.net or hard copies should be sent to Glenn Peterson, 9301 Park West Blvd, Knoxville, TN 37923.

We still need volunteers for manning the tables at the EAC/JRCS convention.  This is a wonderful opportunity to meet fellow collectors and see many neat coins!  Please let me know if you can help at bkaroleff (at) yahoo.com.

The membership will be receiving a copy of the complete index of the John Reich Journal soon.  We are proofing the final copy as you read this and expect it to be in the mail near the end of Feb or the beginning of March.  This will be provided to the membership at no additional cost as many members have donated money or auction lots to raise the money for the issue. 

The Spring issue of the journal will follow soon thereafter.  We can still use a couple of articles or letters to the editor for inclusion in the issue.  We also would like to have some remembrances of David Davis to include in the issue.  Please send them to me at bkaroleff (at) yahoo.com or Brad Karoleff C/O Coins +, 225 E 6th St., suite 1, Cincinnati, OH 45202.  Thank you.

We also need to determine the cover coin for the next volume of the journal.  If anyone has a great photo of a great coin for consideration you can contact me via email for more information.

Remember, EAC/JRCS is sneaking up on us.  Make your plans to attend NOW!

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Winston Zack wrote:

While I sent Van an email of the image of the 1834 JR-4 Capped Bust Dime with a reverse Cud over UN(IT)ED, I think the rest of the JR Newsletter recipients would like to see it so they may be able to come across (cherrypick) one in their future searches.

Jim Matthews sent me some additional information regarding the rarity of the 1825 JR-4 Retained Cud and it is both of our understandings that the population of this die state is around, if not more than 5 pieces extant.  I further informed him that the die did not fail suddenly without first exhibiting signs of die cracking, which he assumed.  The first 1825 JR-4 I picked up (about 3 years ago) shows early signs of die failure with cracking at stars 8-11. The image I'm providing was taken with my digital-camera-microscope.  I still believe this die state is very rare as well, but I could be wrong.  If anyone else has an example which shows these die cracks, or a die state slightly more advanced than what I am sharing please feel free to share photo's if you have any.  (This die crack specimen is a VG-8 coin).

Images are below:

Keep Hunting,

Winston

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David Quint wrote:

With regard to the EAC/JRCS show, I'd like to put it out there that my guess is that many who want to attend these meetings can not. Perhaps one of the attendees would be willing to bring a laptop and stream the thing live on the internet? Easy for me to say since I'm never there, but perhaps one of those who is planning to be in Buffalo would be willing to do this (that is, if it indeed is the case that there are many more like me who won't be in Buffalo that weekend but would like to participate or listen in on the meeting or presentations)...

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Alan Weinberg wrote in response to an inquiry last week by Dick Kurtz:

The copy of the Birch cent is likely the product of the Gallery Mint. They come full blazing red and prooflike and can be acquired at the ANA or Baltimore bourses from one single dealer who specializes in them and other Gallery mint issues. I have to admit they are very attractive and closely resemble the original. It would be interesting to carry one in pocket change for a year til it is worn to say VF and is brown.

The Birch cent has eluded me for 4 decades. I have all the other "collectible" 1792 patterns in choice condition but the Birch cent. There cannot be but 4 or 5  genuine Birch cents of both types in decent collectible condition (Very Good or better). The best one is the mint red specimen sold in Garrett and going directly into the DGP Long Island collection. The last "decent" one (VF) was in Norweb 1988 and is now in the Smithsonian.

Even superbly made electrotypes are super-rare, the few around have gaping lead exposure on their surfaces. I do own the ex-Maurice Gould Birch cent electrotype which is Uncirculated and exhibits no underlying lead even under a good glass. Guess I'll have to die with that.

Alan V. Weinberg

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Larry Schmidt wrote:

Like Dave Wnuck I too enjoy collecting early US contemporary counterfeits. From experience gained in collecting these types of coins there are a few points to consider in the study of this 1811 Half Eagle counterfeit:

• Contemporary counterfeiters would have wanted their coins to been accepted into general circulation with as little attention brought to them as possible.  As a comparison this is certainly true for the vast majority of known contemporary counterfeit Capped Bust Halves, a widely counterfeited coin of the same era.  Identified with nearly 350 varieties in Keith Davignon's book Contemporary Counterfeit Capped Bust Halves - Second Edition and a complementing website ccCBHcc.com, these contemporary counterfeits attempted to look like genuine US Mint coinage with appropriately matched obverses and reverses.  (Yes, there are varieties with the wrong number of stars and very crude folk art like images, but these are the exceptions.)  
• Perhaps this counterfeit was intentionally struck to give the appearance of a worn state as was known to have been intentionally done by 19th century contemporary counterfeiters and continues to today with newly minted supplies of early US coinage fakes.
• Could this 1811 Half Eagle be a more recent counterfeit?  It is known that quite unbelievable obverse and reverse counterfeit marriages seemed to have proliferated with foreign minted fakes displaying ignorance of early US coinage (e.g. please see examples of an 1807 dime and an 1809 dime in the below images from my own collection).  

Hope these perspectives help in the study of this very interesting specimen!

Larry Schmidt

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Van Walworth wrote:

Hey Bust Dime guys...

I have this 1836 JR-1 Bust Dime that is in decent condition.  Photos are attached.  The interesting thing about this particular example is that when observing the strike on the obverse, it could be considered slightly off-center as many of the coins of the era often are... and the off-center strike is somewhat evident by the missing denticles above Stars S4-S5-S6-S7 while the rest of the denticles are quite well formed.

On the reverse is a different story... in this case there are NO denticles and there does not seem to be any off-center strike evidence.  It would appear to me that the forming process of the denticles was "missed" for this coin?  I must admit my lack of knowledge for the actual minting sequence and do not have a very clear understanding of the process flow of the forming of the denticles on the obverse and reverse of the coins.  I am hoping that someone in the group with considerable knowledge can shed some light on this coin as to why it looks like it does.

I look forward to hearing from the sages in the group...

Here are the images:

Van Walworth

JRCS #1300

JR Newsletter: 5 February 2012 (74)

Dave Wnuck wrote about a Possible Hybrid Between a Half Eagle and a Bust Quarter on an 1811 Contemporary Counterfeit 1811 $5:

Hi JRCS Members:

 

I have an intriguing contemporary counterfeit 1811 $5 gold coin in my collection.  I have had it for a while, but I have never seen another specimen in my 20+ years of collecting contemporary counterfeits. 

 

So – I thought I would ask the question of the membership: Does anyone else have an example of this?

 

The most interesting aspect of this item is: the design seems to be a hybrid between an 1811 $5 and a Bust Quarter of the 1815-28 type.  Most obvious is the eagle on the reverse.  The eagle’s wingtips point downward on both this specimen and on bust quarters, but the wingtips point toward the sky on genuine half eagles of the period.  Yet the denomination of “5 D.” and the gold wash still clinging to the specimen clearly show what denomination the counterfeiter was aiming for.

 

Here are the specs on this coin:

---------

1811 contemporary counterfeit US Half Eagle.

Struck in copper with crude false dies.  Gold washed, with traces of gold still visible.

6.11 grams (compared with 8.75 grams for a genuine specimen)

26.5 mm diameter (compared with 25 mm for a genuine specimen)

Reeded edge.

Rings like a bell.

-----

 

I would be interested to hear any and all thoughts and observations on this “coin”.

 

Sincerely,

Dave Wnuck 

Editor's note:  Click on the image below to view a larger version of Dave's coin:

 

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Dick Kurtz wrote:

I was fortunate to win a copy (so marked on the reverse) of a Birch Cent at the JRCS meeting at the January 2012 FUN show. Does anyone who attended that meeting know who made it? Copy or not, it's a neat piece to own.

Dick Kurtz #049

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Van Walworth wrote:

I read with interest Winston's report of his 1825 JR-4 obverse cud find... and would love to see a photo of the 1834 JR-4 reverse full cud example he discovered... Thx... Van

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Nathan Markowitz wrote about the upcoming EAC-JRCS meeting in Buffalo, NY:

This is the LAST CALL for anyone who wishes to share their enthusiasm and knowledge about early federal silver with fellow collectors of both the silver and copper type at the May 3-6 EAC/JRCS show.  The talks will be given Friday May 5 and Saturday May 6.  If you plan to attend please consider sharing your passion for early silver with like-minded collectors. I can be reached at cascades1787 (at) yahoo.com

JR Newsletter: 29 January 2012 (73)

Winston Zack provides our only contribution this week, but it's a great one:

Several of you Bust Dime guys who also collect die states may have noticed that an extremely rare 1825 JR-4 with obverse Retained Cud popped up on eBay in a 5-coin Bust Dime lot this past week.  The seller is notorious for selling groups of primarily lower grade/cull type coins, so it was that much more impressive to notice that the 1825 JR-4 Obverse Cud in this lot appeared to be a respectable example with no immediately discernible damage noticeable from the images.  From the moment I first saw the listing I knew this was one of the rarest cuds in the Capped Bust Dime series; an example still missing from my collection of Capped Bust Dime Retained and Full Cuds; currently there are ~30-32 Capped Bust Dime die marriages exhibiting cuds (refer to the March 2009  Vol. 19, Issue 3 John Reich Journal for an ALMOST complete list of known Capped Bust Dime Cuds with their rarity estimates; the only two I am aware of which are missing from that list are the 1830 JR-2 reverse retained cud and the 1834 JR-4 reverse full cud which I discovered in 2010 and is still unique as far as I know).

Previously, the only image I had seen of this die state was from Jim Matthews' John Reich Journal article (whole number 49, June 2005).  The example shown in the article appeared comparable to the example from eBay - lower-grade G/VG.  In the Matthews article, he noted that this die state is only known in the Retained Cud form, and no examples were known in the Full Cud; at the very least low-grade examples (pretty much anything VF and lower) are very difficult to attribute as Full Cuds unless other known characteristics are present.  In addition, the only known reference I am aware of citing the rarity of this Cud (and other Capped Bust Dime Cuds) comes from Charles Horning's March 2009 Vol. 19 Issue 3 John Reich Journal, where he cited this Cud as an R7+ (~4-6 known).

What makes this Cud so much more interesting than just its current rarity is the fact that it is an obverse cud ( < 20% of known Capped Bust Dime Cuds are obverse Cuds due to the position of the dies and the differential pressures exerted on each die in the coin operation) and the size of the Cud.  Few Capped Bust Dime Cuds rival the size of this example, and the only example I can think of which is larger is the 1833 JR-4 reverse Cud from E1 to A2, although that Cud forms in 3 stages rather than failing all at once as is assumed on the 1825 JR-4.

After providing that background I am pleased to report I was the winner (barely) of this coin (and the 4 others) last week.  It now proudly rests alongside my other Capped Bust Dime Cuds, of which I now have 16 different die marriages.  In terms of condition, the coin exhibits G+ details with a couple of light rim dings around 9 o'clock.  The Cud appears to be full (or nearly so), but I attribute the filling of the area as wear and consider this a worn retained cud.  I have provided photos of the coin below.

Editor's note:  Click on a photo to view a larger version of the photo.

 In addition, I am selling my 1825 B-3 Capped Bust Quarter with Reverse Cud through UNITED; 1825 must have been a rough year for quality control at the mint!  The coin is Good, light rim wear is creeping into the fields and light circulation chatter noted for accuracy.  I'm looking for $625 shipped and insured (or best offer).  Photo also provided below.  If interested in purchasing the quarter, please contact me via email at stoneman101 (at) gmail.com