JR Newsletter: 10 October 2010 (5)

This week's contributions:

Editor's Note:  I have removed the @ symbol from email addresses to help reduce the amount of spam that gets sent to the email addresses listed in this week's newsletter.

David J. Davis wrote:

 For Raymond Hale,

All of the Deluxe editions of the Early U.S. Dime books have been sold and your only alternative there is the secondary market.  Charlie Davis has one for sale in his upcoming auction.  My guess is that it will probably go for about $200.  For counterstamps you need the Brunk book on counterstamps which is still available from the author or various dealers.  You will also need a copy of the Stack's recently concluded 'Americana Sale.'  It included the Tony Terranova collection of counterstamped coins and hands down there has never been anything like it sold at auction.  Should you decide to collect them, it should give a good idea about what they will cost.  I haven't checked prices realized, yet, but I expect that they went for strong money.  It was an opportunity not to be repeated any time soon.

Good luck in your hunt for the bustie coins we all love.

David J.

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 Dick Kurtz wrote:

 Concerning the Overton editions, the 4th expanded the number of die stages (or states, if you prefer) which greatly increased the number of pages. To keep the size & weight of the 4th edition at a more reasonable level (though bigger & heavier than the 3rd edition), the pages are thinner, and in my opinion of lesser quality, with decreased photographic details. The 4th also has the newly discovered die marriages, all of which are preturbs. Unfortunately, errors from the 3rd edition were not corrected in the 4th. As an example, 12-107 is known both with and without the die lump over the left (as viewed) wing, but one wouldn't know that by looking at either edition. My 3rd is loaded with similar observations written on many of its pages, so I continue to use that edition. 

 Dick Kurtz #049

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 Keith Davignon wrote:

In response to Raymond Hale’s request for books on bust half dollars, I still have a few copies of the first edition of the Counterfeit Capped bust Half Dollar book available for $35 (postage paid). Also, there will be a second edition available by the FUN show. Anyone interested in a copy can e-mail me at keithdavignon (at) cox.net As soon as we know the issue price, we will take orders.

 Keith Davignon

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David Perkins wrote:

Input (reply) to Raymond Hale Posting in the October 3, 2010 JR Newsletter

 Raymond Hale wrote last week that he was looking to acquire a copy of Early United States Dimes 1796-1837, Deluxe Edition.  Last night I received a catalog for the Charles Davis Mail Bid Sale of Numismatic Literature, October 30, 2010.  Lot 296 in this sale is copy number 82 of the deluxe signed edition of the dime book, described as in "New condition."  The previous Lot (Lot 295) is a standard copy of the book, "… blue cloth, dust jacket.  As new as they come in unopened original box."

 Charles can be contacted at P.O. Box 547, Wenham, Massachusetts  01984. Phone 978-468-7893.  E-mail Numislit (at) aol.com.

Secondly, Raymond asked about sources on or about counterstamped coinage.  The primary source for information on counterstamped coinage is Merchant and Privately Countermarked Coins by Gregory C. Brunk, published by World Exonumia Press, C/o Rich Hartzog, P.O. Box 4143CNW, Rockford, IL  61110-0643, e-mail Hartzog (at) exonumia.com.  The most current volume of this book was published in 2003.  I believe I recently saw a notice that Rich still has copies of the book for sale.  This book was available as a regular hardbound copy as well as a deluxe, special edition. 

 The predecessor book on countermarked coins was American and Canadian Countermarked coins by Gregory C. Brunk.  This was also published by World Exonumia Press / Rich Hartzog. 

In addition to the book you may want to acquire selected public auction sale catalogs with offerings of counterstamped coinage.  For example, the recent Stack's Americana Sale held in Philadelphia, October 2, 2010 had over 300 Lots of counterstamp U.S. and foreign coins.  This catalog is a "must" in my book for those interested in counterstamped coins.  These Lots are also available for online viewing at the www.stacks.com  website.

Lastly, there have been a number of articles (with photos) of counterstamped U.S. Coinage published over the years in the John Reich Journal.  As a JRCS member you can purchase back issues of the Journal (as available).  There is an index online at the JRCS website at www.jrcs.org.  Richard Meaney, our JR News editor can help you with availability of back issues.  And for those of you who are not aware of this, JRCS member Steve Herrman is working on an index for all issues of the John Reich Journal that will be published in the next year. 

 For example, here are two articles on counterstamped early U.S. silver dollars 1795-1803 that I authored:

 JRJ, Volume 14 / Issue 1, December 2001: “Counterstamped Early Silver Dollars, An Update.”  

JRJ, Volume 16 / Issue 2, February 2005:  “Counterstamps on United States Silver Dollars 1794-1804 as Listed in Merchant and Privately Countermarked Coins, by Gregory Brunk.”

 W. David Perkins

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Glenn Marx wrote:

I'm trying to find a few folks that might be willing to consider helping me via a sale or trade of bust quarters.  I'm searching for an 1831 B-1 & B-4 quarter, an 1838 B-1, plus a few other.small-size varieties in AU to low mint state grade (nice for grade with minimal marks).  I'm also looking for some early and middle date bust quarter varieties.  If you are a type or variety collector with coins to sell or trade, I can offer common or rare varieties in a number different grades, some condition census.  I can also offer cuds, retained cuds, and other interesting die states - or a Reiver pedigree.  Please send me an email at gmari (at) aol.com if you're interested and let me know what you have.  Thanks - Glenn

 Thanks - Glenn Marx

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Richard Meaney wrote:

 For anyone looking for copies of books related to bust coinage (and a few other coin series), I recommend checking out the website of Rich Uhrich.  His website is http://www.richuhrichcoins.com/index.shtml

Rich typically has the bust dime book, Peterson's half dollar book, Logan-McCloskey half dime book, and the Tompkins quarter book in stock. Rich also sells Bill Bugert's new Seated Half Dollar books. Plus he has lots of other books at fair prices.  In fact, I recently ordered one of Peterson's half dollar guides from Rich.

JR Newsletter: 3 October 2010 (4)

Not too many contributions this week.

Raymond Hale wrote:

I am a new member, and looking for books on Bust Half--and other denomination--coinage.

One: a hard-cover copy of The Ultimate Guide to Attributing Bust Half Dollars. (I have the deluxe edition.)

Two: Contemporary Counterfeit Capped Bust Half Dollars, hard cover.

Three: Early United States Dimes 1796-1837 John Reich Collectors Society--Deluxe Ed.

Four: information on sources on/about counter-stamped coinage.

Five: can you recommend other quality works, including DVD's. I would absolutely LOVE to see some videos of Bust Half coinage.  

 I have Bust Half Fever, M.L. Beistle's work, and Overton's 4th ed. It seems that quite a few people prefer the 3rd edition over the 4th. Any thoughts on how is the 3rd ed. superior?

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 Dan McCarty wrote:

There is a Scotsman Auction in St. Louis on October 15. There are numerous lots that may be of interest to JRCS members. Also, I don't have an address for EAC, but there is a "treasure trove" of early coppers. WEB Site: scoins.com

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 Richard Meaney wrote:

I sent an article to Brad Karoleff for inclusion in the next issue of the John Reich Journal.  How about the rest of you?  Don't let a collector of tiny bust coins win the Jules Reiver Literary Award by default!

 Speaking of Brad, I was just looking through the catalog for the "Russel J. Logan Duplicate Sale" and I was reminded how great a job Brad did writing the descriptions for those coins.  I was more than pleased with each of the coins I won in the auction. All were conservatively-graded (comparing Brad's standards to those of popular third-party grading services today).

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That's all we have for the week!

JR Newsletter: 26 September 2010 (3)

Here we go with this week's contributions:

Rich Hartzog wrote in response to Dennis Villanucci:

As the publisher of the Brunk books on Countermarked coins, I have a small complaint to make, mostly against large auctioneers.  Once a coin has been stamped, it is no longer a coin, but a token, and any image of it should show the counterstamp in an upright position.   Showing it as a coin makes it difficult to view the now most important part, the countermark.  If you want to sell it as a countermark, align the countermark to be most visible.  A quick glance at the upcoming Stacks sale shows some of the countermark lots (IN the countermark section) to picture the blank side of the countermarked coin (#5002,5006, for example)!  I also note a LOT of incorrect pics, starting at lot #5240.  And, the countermarked items are organized by denomination, instead of by issuer. Most, but not all, of the Stacks pictures are correctly aligned, to show the countermarks. My small rant of the day.  BTW, I still have a small supply of the latest Brunk book on my web site at www.exonumia.com .  Rich Hartzog - World Exonumia

+++

Also in response to Dennis Villanucci, here's what Nathan Markowitz wrote:

On Browning 8 quarter and its counterstamps:

I read with interest the discovery of the counterstamp on an 1806 B8 quarter described here by Dennis Villanucci last week.  This die marriage is my personal favorite and the key to completing a draped bust quarter die variety set.  I commend Dennis on using somewhat obtuse secondary diagnostics to correctly attribute this example without the standout diagnostic deformed "C" commonly attributed to being punched over an "A"...a theory in great dispute. 

He shared with me that he found this coin recently in a small shop and used his numismatic "instinct" to correctly pick up the diagnostic R over T which is shared by most of the scarce die marriages of 1806.  Perhaps we will never know what the "NC US" means as he mentioned he thought it might refer to North Carolina. It does appear to my eye an older marking though I don't possess expertise on this subject.  It would be interesting to learn if the seller has any contacts that may prove useful in further pedigree research on this coin. As we know, this more often leads to dead ends but "once in a while"....

My own adventure with an 1806 B8 counterstamp came a few years back at a national show.  By sheer luck I arrived at a dealers table and found an 1806 B8 draped bust quarter with the letter "J" punched strongly in the right obverse field.  The dealer was delighted to sell that "choice" coin as he somewhat sarcastically put it to this very silly collector.  It only proves that one mans garbage may prove another's treasure.  I was simply thrilled.  This example displayed below is easily attributable by all the diagnostics.  It is slightly bent from the force of the punch.  It shows the classic grade differential on the 1806 B8 quarter where the reverse is struck up much stronger than the obverse.  I have noted this on all known examples.  (editor's note:  Nathan has provided us with three images of his counterstamped 1806 B8.  Click on the images to enlarge them)

Thanks again to Dennis for sharing his example with the JR world and to Richard for reviving this wonderful electronic venue.

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Liz Coggan wrote last week:

Just a note to let you know, J.J. Teaparty will be conducting a sealed bid auction for an 1800 LIBEKTY LM-4, R-7 Draped Bust half dime.  This coin is very choice Fine in grade with claims to VF--in fact it could be argued that the coin is VF.  The sealed bid sale will be held at the November Whitman Baltimore Show on Friday afternoon at 2:00 pm.  We will have the coin on display at the show for anyone to review. 

Also if you plan to attend the Philly Whitman show and would like to see the coin there, I will have it there on display for you to look at.  Please feel free to call me or email me with any questions:  liz@jjteaparty.com  1-800-343-6412.

Editor's Note:  I posted images of this coin in a special blog article below!

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Brad Karoleff wrote:

The John Reich Journal was awarded a first place award from the Numismatic Literary Guild for best small club publication for our December 2009 issue at the recently completed ANA show in Boston.  We actually tied with Curry's Chronicle, Carson City Coin Collectors of America Summer 2009 issue edited by Rusty Goe. 

You too can be part of an award winning team.  Write something for the next issue of the journal and you may become part of history.  I would like to have enough for an issue before the Christmas season, but the cupboard is pretty bare!  Please take some time to finish that project you are working on, or begin one for submission.  You can send them to me either at JRCS PO Box 135 Harrison, OH 45030, or by email at  JRCS19 (at) roadrunner.com

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Richard Meaney wrote in response to Brad Karoleff:

The pattern Brad followed in collecting coins in the VF range as he started out and then resetting his goal higher as he gained expertise is a familiar one.  When I decided that I wanted to collect capped bust half dimes by die marriage, I chose the first example that I could find of each die marriage, even if it was of hole-filler quality.  As I advanced in my collection, I set VF as my goal, then XF.  Today, I have tiered minimum goals based on rarity:  For common die marriages, I want AU coins.  For R-5 die marriages, I want XF coins.  For R-6 and scarcer die marriages, I want VF coins.  I still have some problematic coins in some tough spots, but that's the nature of the hobby.

A final note from the editor:

For those of you that wrote in asking for back issues of the JR Journal, I wanted to let you know that your orders have been filled if the issues you asked for were some of the more common/recent ones.  For those of you who have asked for some of the hard to find/older issues, we are in a temporary holding pattern on these as we iron out some pricing concerns on the older issues.  The JRCS Board will establish pricing for some of the highly-sought-after older issues before allowing them to be sold to the collecting public.  Sorry about any delays.  No need to re-send your requests.

Image of the JJ Teaparty 1800 LM-4

In the September 20, 2010 newsletter, Liz Coggan wrote about a rare half dime that will be available for auction.  Liz just provided me an image of the coin.  I will re-run her email in next week's newsletter, but wanted to provide the image now so those interested may view the coin:

JR Newsletter: 19 September 2010 (2)

We had a pretty healthy response with multiple contributions this week!  Here are the contributions from readers:

Stephen Fischer wrote:

As to the rant about price guides---they are only guides and if everyone only went by the guides then we wouldn't have to do any research and we would all be as smart as each other---but with the research that we all like to do, we find that some coins are worth far more than the guides would lead you to believe. Coins you never see anywhere, or in certain grades, or with certain breaks, cuds, etc. Therefore we are willing to pay a lot more in some cases than the guides suggest.  At this point we feel much smarter than everyone else, because our research and hard work has paid off.  So I say let the fine folks who know all and see all keep plugging in those numbers. I for one will keep on with my research and keep getting the deal of the century once in a while.  Stephen Fischer

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David Perkins wrote:

335 Lots of Counterstamped Coins in Stack's October Americana Sale!
For those who may not be aware of this yet, Stack's is offering 335 Lots of Counterstamped coins in their October Americana Sale to be held in Philadelphia September 30 – October 2, 2010. 
 I spent a couple of enjoyable hours last night viewing these and other Lots from the sale online.  It appears some of these counterstamped coins have been off the market for over 30 years; most for a long time.  There are a number of pieces not listed in the Brunk book, Merchant and Privately Countermarked Coins. 
Lots can be viewed online.  I'm told by a reliable source that the catalogs are being mailed this week. 
W. David Perkins
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Liz Coggan wrote:
Hi JRCS members:
Just a note to let you know, J.J. Teaparty will be conducting a sealed bid auction for an 1800 LIBEKTY LM-4, R-7 Draped Bust half dime.  This coin is very choice Fine in grade with claims to VF--in fact it could be argued that the coin is VF.  The sealed bid sale will be held at the November Whitman Baltimore Show on Friday afternoon at 2:00 pm.  We will have the coin on display at the show for anyone to review. 

Also if you plan to attend the Philly Whitman show and would like to see the coin there, I will have it there on display for you to look at.  Please feel free to call me or email me with any questions:  liz@jjteaparty.com  1-800-343-6412. I will try to get some photos posted so you can look at it on line.
(Editor's Note:  As of today, September 19th, there are no images of the coin available at JJ Teaparty's website)

Best wishes,

Liz Coggan
J. J. Teaparty, Inc
1-800-343-6412

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Mark Borckardt wrote:

In response to the rant from Dick Wells:
Please understand that the price guide editors at Coin World, Numismatic News, and nearly any other price guide you can name, have a nearly Herculean task. While collectors may specialize in a single coin series, or a small group of related series, the price guide editors have to be intimately familiar with every series that their publication handles, and that includes everything from 1793 half cents to 2009 and 2010-dated modern issue coins. For most collectors, such a task would seem daunting. While you are commenting on the price of Bust quarters, someone else may be complaining about the price of Saint-Gaudens double eagles, for example. And that is a series that changes every day. When a series like Bust quarters is considered, with prices largely unaffected by the daily price movement of gold and silver bullion, the price editors tend to be less proactive, and for good reason. The best thing that collectors can do is send positively written letters or emails to those price editors, asking that they review the prices in a given series. If they receive enough requests for any given series, they will almost be forced into a reexamination. Remember, however, that letters must take a positive or proactive stance.
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Brad Karoleff wrote:

Things have been very busy here in Cincinnati the last few weeks.  Coupled with a short vacation to NYC to visit my son there hasn't been much free time. 

I need submissions for the next issue of the JRJ.  Sound familiar?  We do not have anything on hand yet.  How about a review of the ANA?  Did any new members attend?  What were your thoughts and experiences?  You can float something here in the JR News and then send something to me for publication.

I'm sitting here in front of my TV thinking that I will never hear the end of things from Steve Crain and Richard Meaney after the Bengals get limping to the end of the game.
(Editor's Note:  All who follow football are well aware that the Cincinnati Bengals have been a non-factor in the NFL since the game on January 24, 1982)

On a numismatic note;  I began collecting the capped bust half dollars in 1978 by die marriage.  My original goal was problem free VF coins as my salary at the time was less than $2/hr!  Later I made XF my target grade.  I also set a minimum die marriage count of 400, later amended to at least 440 with a grade average of XF40.  I recently added the first NEW die marriage to my collection in over a decade with the purchase of an 1827 O137 which is my 440th die marriage.  I still "only" average a little over a VF35, but am pretty happy with the collection I have managed to build on a budget over the last 32 years. 

My point is that a new collector can begin a collection like the half dollars by die marriage with VF being the target grade and obtain 250-300 die marriages without paying over "type coin" price.  This is still a formidable collection and challenge if you are picky about the surfaces on your coins.  You may even be able to "cherrypick" a couple of rare die marriages for common prices if you study your Overton book carefully. 

Collecting the half dollars has been a very rewarding experience for me.  It has led me to this organization which has also been very fulfilling.  More importantly it has fostered many new friendships with other collectors with similar interests.  Where else can you meet someone who you can spend hours discussing not only numismatics, but the pros and cons of the Jefferson administration, the War of 1812, Jackson's removal of the funds from the Bank of the US and the subsequent world recession and many more items of interest? Jump in and become part of the group and see how much more you enjoy your collection!

Let's all work together to fill the inbox of Richard's for the JR News and the club's PO Box with submissions for the JR Journal.  We will all be richer for the sharing of the information.

Numismatically Yours,

Brad Karoleff

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Dennis Villanucci wrote:

Recently, I came across an interesting counterstamped 1806 Bust Quarter.  The counterstamp is partly worn off, but it appears to read "NC US".  Can anyone help in identifying this stamp?  The host coin is B-8, apparently an R6 with 20 or so pieces known.  The die crack at the lower left reverse is light, and has not yet formed the cud that occurs in the late die state.
(Editor's Note:  Dennis provided images of this coin.  I have attached a file to this message.  If you wish to view a larger version of the image, go to http://jr-newsletter.blogspot.com/ and click on the picture found there to enlarge it).
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From the editor:
1.  In response to Gary Rosner's request for information on 1829 LM-4 and LM-5 half dimes:  I have attached some images (coins that are mine or used to be mine).  The 1829 LM-4 is an XF-45 coin.  The 1829 LM-5 is an MS-63 coin.  The "jagged line" is there on the reverse of both coins.  I did note, when comparing various examples of the die marriage, that it seems that the "jagged line" is short on some coins and extends further/more upward on others.
Also, I can't tell from viewing the provided images if the obverse details suffered any ill effects from the condition of the reverse die.  I do recognize, however, that the obverse isn't the best-struck in the series.  It does have so-so details, in my opinion.  You will note on my coin that the reverse is very weakly-struck.  Take a look at the eagle's claws!

2.  I take the liberty to edit all contributions for spelling and grammar (to the best of my ability).  I think this enhances the readability of the weekly email.

3.  If you need a back issue of the John Reich Journal in order to "complete your collection" or replace a lost or damaged copy, please send me an email.  I am now the "official JRCS custodian" of all prior-year issues of the JR Journal.  Send me a note and tell me what you need.   I will check inventory and get back to you with what's in stock and the cost.



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Here are the images discussed in this week's newsletter (click on any image to open up a larger version that will help you to better see details):

Weekly Newsletter 9.12.2010

I want to welcome everyone to the JR Newsletter.  Bill Luebke started "JR News" a few years ago in an effort to provide like-minded numismatists with the opportunity to share information.  I hope to uphold the high standards set by Bill in my role as Editor, JR Newsletter.  Also, without the help of Rob Logan, we would not have been able to resume this newsletter as a weekly email.  The JRCS owes him a great deal of thanks!

Some background before I present this week's contributions:

Almost anything goes with this newsletter.  It is YOUR newsletter.  I am merely the agent who transmits the information.  Feel free to ask questions, provide answers to the questions of others, share stories of recent finds, offer anecdotes about your experiences as a collector/dealer/researcher, tell us about a neat numismatic experience, or place coins up for sale or trade to a targeted audience.  For the newsletter to work well, it needs your input.

I will send images with this newsletter when people provide them to me.  Images included with this newsletter will generally be smaller in size in order to limit this email to a manageable level.  However, I will post larger images on the JR Newsletter blog at http://jr-newsletter.blogspot.com/ .  Clicking on images found on the JR Newsletter blog causes the images to enlarge, enabling you to view details much better.

Enough background, here's what you really signed up to read:

Gary Rosner wrote:

I was studying a 1829 LM-4 Bust Half Dime in a VF20 PCGS holder. Two questions came up while examining this variety.

First, this same reverse is used on the 1829 LM-5 variety as well. Both this LM-4 and the LM-5 in my collection are in about Vey Fine condition but the reverse is in a higher grade then the obverse on both coins. The center obverse details on both are missing where the peripheral obverse details are better. Under the LM-5 page in the half dime book they mention that the reverse die swells in the center causing the reverse of the coins to be slightly concave. Is it possible that on late die stage LM-4 and on LM-5 this caused the center of the obverse to wear faster? Maybe some one has higher grade examples of these variety that can shed some light on the subject because they can tell how much detail these varieties had to start with? Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Second, on the reverse's left wing (eagle's right wing) starting over the second feather left of the shield there is a jagged line into the field that is either always on the die or a crack forming? It is obvious on both my LM-4 and LM-5 examples, and I can almost make it out in the pictures in the book. Can anyone else see this on their LM-4 and LM-5?

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Dick Wells wrote:

Here's a rant:  Price guides are generally not even in the ballpark when it comes to bust quarters. Sometimes they are off by a huge amount from what's going on the in the market.  I wonder if someone with some good connections can talk to Coin World, Numismatic News, etc.?

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Although Brad Karoleff didn't provide any input for this issue, I will channel Brad in his editor role for the JR Journal and encourage you to write something for the next issue of the journal!


That's it for this issue.  Let me know if you have suggestions for improvement and I will try my best to accommodate. 

E-Mail Version of JR Newsletter

An e-mail version of the JR Newsletter is in the works.  We are attempting to be able to send one, mass-addressed e-mail to hundreds of people at a time without problems with spam filters on the sending (Internet Service Provider) or receiving ends.

If you have a spam filter, you should add the address jrnewsletter at jrcs.org to your list of "allowed" e-mail addresses.  I formulated the email address with "at" in place of  @ so as to lessen the likelihood of a spammer picking up on that address and flooding my email address with junk...of course, you should use the @ symbol when entering the e-mail address into your "allowed list" of your spam filter to ensure accuracy.

I expect the first mass e-mail will be one announcing the new service and asking recipients to respond in the affirmative that they would indeed like to receive regular e-mails on topics of interest to collectors of bust coinage.  Once the bugs get worked out during the testing phase, we will get this thing off the ground.  You can send me an e-mail now asking to be included in this effort; otherwise, I plan on using the hundred to two hundred e-mail addresses I inherited from the JR News.